Discussion:
Aren't the French kind of funny?
(too old to reply)
DonQuijote1954
2004-07-23 17:46:52 UTC
Permalink
Poll...

http://engforum.pravda.ru/showthread.php3?threadid=88867
Bicycle riders should have to pay a tax or a toll to ride on the
streets and roadway paid by liquid fuel taxes. The money should
then be used to build cycle roadways. EVERYONE would benefit.
Unfortunately bicycle riders want to continue to ride for free.
It the American way I guess, to believe the government should tax
someone else for the things you want for free.
Propose something absurd, make sure nothing is ever done about it.

We live in a society and there must be some things that make life
pleasurable: arts, parks, bike routes... Or you want people to pay for
their own parks too?

***

An art form created in the States goes without financial support,
while the French subsidize it... Aren't they kind of funny?


"Americans still have trouble appreciating the music they invented and
sent out into the world," says Didier Levallet, the leader of the
Orchestre National de Jazz (ONJ). "You can imagine how much trouble
they have accepting French jazz." An ironic smile accompanies his
gross understatement.

Paris is the jazz capital of Europe. The Art Ensemble of Chicago was
in residence for several years at the American Center in Montparnasse.
With his French and French-resident band, soprano saxophonist Steve
Lacy has lived in Paris for 30 years; he is called a guru and his
influence abounds. Tenorman Archie Shepp and trumpeter Don Cherry both
spent a lot of time moving in and out of Paris. Saxman Johnny Griffin
lives in a chateau near Poitiers. The late Dexter Gordon was awarded a
"Chevalier de L'Ordre des Arts et Des Lettres" (something comparable
to a Pulitzer prize) by Minister of Culture Jack Lang after
"Long-Tall" was nominated for an Oscar for playing Dale Turner in
Bertrand Tavernier's film "Round Midnight," about American jazzmen in
Paris.

The ONJ is SUBSIDIZED BY THE FRENCH to prove how good the French are
at playing music invented in America. Bizarre. It is well known that
the French consider the Americans cultural imperialists. The
orchestra's very existence illustrates the fact that the Americans no
longer enjoy a monopoly. In 1998, the ONJ performed in Ukraine,
Finland, Lithuania, Britain, Spain, Turkey, Portugal and France. A
musician in Kiev told Levallet: "I would like to live my life the way
your orchestra sounds." France being considered the image of where
"America's only native art form" lives is one weird stop indeed on the
new horizontal circuit.

http://webspawner.com/users/donquijote
La Donna Mobile
2004-07-23 19:54:05 UTC
Permalink
I don't suppose people in France think so.

"Ooh, look they're different from us - they must be wrong..."

Wanker
Post by DonQuijote1954
Poll...
http://engforum.pravda.ru/showthread.php3?threadid=88867
Bicycle riders should have to pay a tax or a toll to ride on the
streets and roadway paid by liquid fuel taxes. The money should
then be used to build cycle roadways. EVERYONE would benefit.
Unfortunately bicycle riders want to continue to ride for free.
It the American way I guess, to believe the government should tax
someone else for the things you want for free.
Propose something absurd, make sure nothing is ever done about it.
We live in a society and there must be some things that make life
pleasurable: arts, parks, bike routes... Or you want people to pay for
their own parks too?
***
An art form created in the States goes without financial support,
while the French subsidize it... Aren't they kind of funny?
"Americans still have trouble appreciating the music they invented and
sent out into the world," says Didier Levallet, the leader of the
Orchestre National de Jazz (ONJ). "You can imagine how much trouble
they have accepting French jazz." An ironic smile accompanies his
gross understatement.
Paris is the jazz capital of Europe. The Art Ensemble of Chicago was
in residence for several years at the American Center in Montparnasse.
With his French and French-resident band, soprano saxophonist Steve
Lacy has lived in Paris for 30 years; he is called a guru and his
influence abounds. Tenorman Archie Shepp and trumpeter Don Cherry both
spent a lot of time moving in and out of Paris. Saxman Johnny Griffin
lives in a chateau near Poitiers. The late Dexter Gordon was awarded a
"Chevalier de L'Ordre des Arts et Des Lettres" (something comparable
to a Pulitzer prize) by Minister of Culture Jack Lang after
"Long-Tall" was nominated for an Oscar for playing Dale Turner in
Bertrand Tavernier's film "Round Midnight," about American jazzmen in
Paris.
The ONJ is SUBSIDIZED BY THE FRENCH to prove how good the French are
at playing music invented in America. Bizarre. It is well known that
the French consider the Americans cultural imperialists. The
orchestra's very existence illustrates the fact that the Americans no
longer enjoy a monopoly. In 1998, the ONJ performed in Ukraine,
Finland, Lithuania, Britain, Spain, Turkey, Portugal and France. A
musician in Kiev told Levallet: "I would like to live my life the way
your orchestra sounds." France being considered the image of where
"America's only native art form" lives is one weird stop indeed on the
new horizontal circuit.
http://webspawner.com/users/donquijote
DonQuijote1954
2004-07-24 02:54:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by La Donna Mobile
I don't suppose people in France think so.
"Ooh, look they're different from us - they must be wrong..."
I think they simply find it amusing... ;)

***

"Life is a circus. Try not to be the clown"
Frenchy
2004-07-24 06:40:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by DonQuijote1954
"Life is a circus. Try not to be the clown"
Well, maybe you should consider trying harder...

Frenchy
DonQuijote1954
2004-07-24 11:13:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Frenchy
Post by DonQuijote1954
"Life is a circus. Try not to be the clown"
Well, maybe you should consider trying harder...
Frenchy
I try. But then again my name is Quixote... ;(

***

"My struggle is not against the puppet, but against the puppeteer"
DonQuijote1954
2004-07-24 05:08:21 UTC
Permalink
See, some Americans take France as a negative role...
The OP gave a perfect example. Socialism has reduced the freedom of
people in France (or is it Paris only? I can't recall) to buy SUVs.
They have taxed out of range the price of SUVs for people who were
close to the economic bubble of buying one in the first place. The
choice of buying an SUV has been eliminated, due exclusively to
socialism. But it goes farther than that. It has affected the sales
people at the dealerships who would sell the SUV, the car manufacturer
who makes them, the truck driver who delivers them, the automotive
suppliers to supply parts and tooling, the steel worker who supplies
the steel. One stupid law has affected thousands of people, directly
or indirectly.
Go to France, and try importing a Peugeot to America. Be ready to pay
big bugs to get past the regulations...
DonQuijote1954
2004-07-24 13:46:10 UTC
Permalink
"lucky people abroad"
<Subsidizing the Arts is a waste of taxpayer money. If ppl don't want
to pay to see them, then they are not contributing a service that is
deemed worthy to the public, and they should NOT be subsidized. I
thought President Bush was foolish to give $28 million of taxpayer
money to the Arts. He acted like a socialist sh itstain when he did
that.>

Sure, they should concentrate on propaganda abroad. Remember
when the brought down the Soviet Union with rock-and-roll?

Well let me tell you, local radio ****s. Up to twenty minutes of
commercials every hour, no jazz, no blues, no fair news. Just the same
old song over and over and over...

Lucky the people abroad...

International Broadcasting Operations (IBO) and Broadcasting to Cuba:

The FY 2002 request of $428.2 million for International Broadcasting
Operations will provide funding to continue U.S. Government
non-military international broadcasting operations consolidated by the
International Broadcasting Act of 1994. These operations are under the
auspices of the independent Broadcasting Board of Governors and
include the International Broadcasting Bureau (IBB), the Voice of
America (VOA), Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty (RFE/RL), and Radio
Free Asia (RFA).

The IBO request will enable IBB, RFE/RL, and RFA to continue base
level operations, including salary and inflation increases. The
request includes an additional $5 million to enhance VOA broadcasting
to the Middle East, with a focus on diversifying both programming and
transmission media.

Broadcasting to Cuba:

The FY 2002 request of $24.9 million funds base level operations for
both Radio Marti and TV Marti, including salary and inflation
increases. The request includes full funding to support OCB
transmission requirements in FY 2002.

http://www.state.gov/s/rpp/rls/iab/index.cfm?docid=2105
DonQuijote1954
2004-07-25 02:08:53 UTC
Permalink
We live in a society and must be some things that make life
pleasurable: arts, parks, bike routes... Or you want people to pay for
their own parks too?
Yes, they should. Arts and parks have nowhere near the life-threatening
importance that is needed to justify forcible taxation.
Who should pay, the homeless? They are the ones that use it... ;)

WE GOT THE BEST EDUCATED HOMELESS IN THE WORLD!!!

The homeless are everywhere: parks, beaches, scenic places, romantic
hideaways, libraries... The powerful, safe and comfortable in their
exclusive neighborhoods, ignore them; the average family, turned down
by their presence, is kept away from out better places... We can
safely say: America got the best educated homeless in the world!!!
Mike
2004-07-28 02:39:54 UTC
Permalink
I just wish they would have stuck with Linux instead of Microsoft offering a
cheaper deal!
Post by DonQuijote1954
"lucky people abroad"
<Subsidizing the Arts is a waste of taxpayer money. If ppl don't want
to pay to see them, then they are not contributing a service that is
deemed worthy to the public, and they should NOT be subsidized. I
thought President Bush was foolish to give $28 million of taxpayer
money to the Arts. He acted like a socialist sh itstain when he did
that.>
Sure, they should concentrate on propaganda abroad. Remember
when the brought down the Soviet Union with rock-and-roll?
Well let me tell you, local radio ****s. Up to twenty minutes of
commercials every hour, no jazz, no blues, no fair news. Just the same
old song over and over and over...
Lucky the people abroad...
The FY 2002 request of $428.2 million for International Broadcasting
Operations will provide funding to continue U.S. Government
non-military international broadcasting operations consolidated by the
International Broadcasting Act of 1994. These operations are under the
auspices of the independent Broadcasting Board of Governors and
include the International Broadcasting Bureau (IBB), the Voice of
America (VOA), Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty (RFE/RL), and Radio
Free Asia (RFA).
The IBO request will enable IBB, RFE/RL, and RFA to continue base
level operations, including salary and inflation increases. The
request includes an additional $5 million to enhance VOA broadcasting
to the Middle East, with a focus on diversifying both programming and
transmission media.
The FY 2002 request of $24.9 million funds base level operations for
both Radio Marti and TV Marti, including salary and inflation
increases. The request includes full funding to support OCB
transmission requirements in FY 2002.
http://www.state.gov/s/rpp/rls/iab/index.cfm?docid=2105
EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)
2004-07-24 18:06:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by DonQuijote1954
See, some Americans take France as a negative role...
The OP gave a perfect example. Socialism has reduced the freedom of
people in France (or is it Paris only? I can't recall) to buy SUVs.
They have taxed out of range the price of SUVs for people who were
close to the economic bubble of buying one in the first place. The
choice of buying an SUV has been eliminated, due exclusively to
socialism. But it goes farther than that. It has affected the sales
people at the dealerships who would sell the SUV, the car manufacturer
who makes them, the truck driver who delivers them, the automotive
suppliers to supply parts and tooling, the steel worker who supplies
the steel. One stupid law has affected thousands of people, directly
or indirectly.
Go to France, and try importing a Peugeot to America. Be ready to pay
big bugs to get past the regulations...
"Big bugs"? What do you plan to pay with, cockroaches or mosquitoes?
DonQuijote1954
2004-07-25 00:08:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)
Post by DonQuijote1954
See, some Americans take France as a negative role...
The OP gave a perfect example. Socialism has reduced the freedom of
people in France (or is it Paris only? I can't recall) to buy SUVs.
They have taxed out of range the price of SUVs for people who were
close to the economic bubble of buying one in the first place. The
choice of buying an SUV has been eliminated, due exclusively to
socialism. But it goes farther than that. It has affected the sales
people at the dealerships who would sell the SUV, the car manufacturer
who makes them, the truck driver who delivers them, the automotive
suppliers to supply parts and tooling, the steel worker who supplies
the steel. One stupid law has affected thousands of people, directly
or indirectly.
Go to France, and try importing a Peugeot to America. Be ready to pay
big bugs to get past the regulations...
"Big bugs"? What do you plan to pay with, cockroaches or mosquitoes?
No, these rather... ;)

Loading Image...&imgrefurl=http://www.caligari.com/Gallery/OneManShow/PhilEmery/bugs2.asp%3FCate%3DGOneManShow&h=450&w=600&sz=37&tbnid=oYRqwIaSjQMJ:&tbnh=99&tbnw=132&start=17&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dgiant%2Bbugs%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8
stephenmead
2004-07-24 19:17:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by DonQuijote1954
See, some Americans take France as a negative role...
The OP gave a perfect example. Socialism has reduced the freedom of
people in France (or is it Paris only? I can't recall) to buy SUVs.
They have taxed out of range the price of SUVs for people who were
close to the economic bubble of buying one in the first place. The
choice of buying an SUV has been eliminated, due exclusively to
socialism. But it goes farther than that. It has affected the sales
people at the dealerships who would sell the SUV, the car manufacturer
who makes them, the truck driver who delivers them, the automotive
suppliers to supply parts and tooling, the steel worker who supplies
the steel. One stupid law has affected thousands of people, directly
or indirectly.
Go to France, and try importing a Peugeot to America. Be ready to pay
big bugs to get past the regulations...
Grrrrr.....right, breaking my own advice about ignoring offensive OT posts:
Why have you posted this ignorant ridiculous rubbish to an opera neswsgroup?
SUV's have had a tax surcharged on them in Paris only for *environmental*
reasons.
But I suppose you think you have to have the "freedom" to drive around in
petrol-guzzling monsters that not only waste the world's resources and are
contributing to the destruction of the planet but are much more likely to
cause death or serious injury to children or other pedestrians in crowded
urban areas.
And the reason SUV's are so popular in America is because they are taxed at
a very low level due to their being classified as *farm* machinery"!!
Which policy do you think makes more sense, the US' or France's? I know
which one I'd choose......
Vive la France!
DonQuijote1954
2004-07-25 02:18:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by stephenmead
Post by DonQuijote1954
See, some Americans take France as a negative role...
The OP gave a perfect example. Socialism has reduced the freedom of
people in France (or is it Paris only? I can't recall) to buy SUVs.
They have taxed out of range the price of SUVs for people who were
close to the economic bubble of buying one in the first place. The
choice of buying an SUV has been eliminated, due exclusively to
socialism. But it goes farther than that. It has affected the sales
people at the dealerships who would sell the SUV, the car manufacturer
who makes them, the truck driver who delivers them, the automotive
suppliers to supply parts and tooling, the steel worker who supplies
the steel. One stupid law has affected thousands of people, directly
or indirectly.
Go to France, and try importing a Peugeot to America. Be ready to pay
big bugs to get past the regulations...
Why have you posted this ignorant ridiculous rubbish to an opera neswsgroup?
SUV's have had a tax surcharged on them in Paris only for *environmental*
reasons.
But I suppose you think you have to have the "freedom" to drive around in
petrol-guzzling monsters that not only waste the world's resources and are
contributing to the destruction of the planet but are much more likely to
cause death or serious injury to children or other pedestrians in crowded
urban areas.
And the reason SUV's are so popular in America is because they are taxed at
a very low level due to their being classified as *farm* machinery"!!
Which policy do you think makes more sense, the US' or France's? I know
which one I'd choose......
Vive la France!
"Farm machinery"? No wonder they hide behind tinted windows... ;)

Do you know these wonderful pieces of machinery?

http://poseur.4x4.org/futuresuv.html
DonQuijote1954
2004-07-25 08:19:45 UTC
Permalink
"No arts, no letters, no society, and which is worst of all, continual
fear and danger of violent death, and the life of man solitary, poor,
nasty, brutish, and short." -Thomas Hobbes (1588v1679)

That was before the invention of Rambo movies. Now they live quite
content... ;)
DonQuijote1954
2004-07-25 17:34:59 UTC
Permalink
<Q.. what will happen if you do not subsidise the arts?
A.... Britney and Christina. >

24 hours singing crash course?

Michael Jackson takes a bit more effort though... ;)
DonQuijote1954
2004-07-25 17:36:12 UTC
Permalink
< Funny how??

Ha Ha funny or gay funny??>

To be honest, I think Americans are more funny...

http://www.geocities.com/wallacejohnus/
DonQuijote1954
2004-07-25 17:39:57 UTC
Permalink
Personality Test: Are you a Capitalist Pig?

Unlike other tests that make you waste your time (time is money,
right?),
I've found this to be a SIMPLE personality test, whether you are a
"capitalist pig" misanthropist, or a people's person...

http://engforum.pravda.ru/showthread.php3?threadid=88880
DonQuijote1954
2004-07-25 18:40:57 UTC
Permalink
anyone still doubts Americans are more funny? ;)

click on the caricature...

http://www.jibjab.com/
DonQuijote1954
2004-07-25 19:06:54 UTC
Permalink
<california just built a very important replacement bridge on one of
the worlds busiest roadways, a toll bridge supported by a $3 toll and
built with state and federal and local highway funds, mostly from
gasoline taxes.

at a cost of around $7 million a part of the roadbed is dedicated to
foot and bicycle traffic, which of course means the number of auto
traffic lanes are limited.

the bicyclist pay nothing.>

They should get a free bicycle ride. After all, they make for fewer
vehicles on that same road.

Isn't it kind of ironic that cyclists got no chance in the land of
Lance Armstrong?
DonQuijote1954
2004-07-25 20:14:00 UTC
Permalink
"in an ideal world"
<Our folk festivals at one time leaned on governments for help, trying
to make the case that we had a culture, it was dying, it needed to be
seen to be appreciated or else we'd lose it. Now though, they seem to
do OK without government help - at least most do.>

In an ideal world, the Arts should be subsidized; the military should
go out there and pass the hat among the interested parties...
DonQuijote1954
2004-07-26 02:51:03 UTC
Permalink
That would pretty well kill off real folk art. The artsy-fartsy types
would demand cultural uniformity.
I'm not sure that the fact of them passing the hat makes them any more folkloric...

Tell me where in the wide world of American radio is folk art?
DonQuijote1954
2004-07-26 19:19:28 UTC
Permalink
other words, they claim that the winner of the game is better for the
competition over all rivals and so this dictator of the economy deserves
what he gets. Would that it were true. Usually the winner is the guy that
fights dirtiest.
Except you conviently forget that everybody (except the state) has to
play by the same rules (laws). Conviently for the state, they get to
impose any monopolies they wish upon the people. We see it at the
(U.S.) Federal level with the US Post Office, to city services that
pick up trash, and internal support services (janitors who clean
government buildings, shops that maintain govt. vehicles, printing,
data processing, etc). Private and public corporations don't have
that luxery, and have to compete. While it's true they are all trying
to "win", it can never happen. Name one private company that became a
monopoly WITHOUT GOVERNMENT HELP. It never happens, because someone
will always step up to fill any void, as long as the state stays out
of the way in allowing competition to form. In the end, the consumer
is the one who wins.
If the consumer always won, the Corporation would always be at the
point of collapse. The fact though that the Corporation and not the
individual consumer swim in money goes to prove who's on top.

Another proof of who's in charge, is the consumers being forced into
ever bigger vehicles to be "in"--thanks to advertising--or to be safe
from similar vehicles. The government meanwhile "looks the other way"
and fails to REGULATE, TAX or at least ENFORCE TRAFFIC LAWS ON THE
ROADS.

It looks to me like the lion is fleecing the sheep... ;)
DonQuijote1954
2004-07-27 17:31:49 UTC
Permalink
The Copulator SUV

You thought you saw it all, the Fornicator? Ha-ha-ha...

The baddest of them all will be the "Copulator." Yeah, you heard
right, the Copulator will be the most macho vehicle on the road. It
will beat every single sissy vehicle out there. Face it, your vehicle
is female, and I will sooner or later mount you.

So next time you see me around on a chromed, three-story high SUV,
remember it can be your turn. Ha-ha-ha...

PS: You'll recognize me by my little pooddle. She's so cute in pink...
;)
Malev
2004-07-27 18:00:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by DonQuijote1954
The Copulator SUV
Ideal for pricks.
DonQuijote1954
2004-07-28 02:35:25 UTC
Permalink
What a ridiculously idiotic idea. The government isn't supposed to be
in the business of social engineering.
What a stupid statement. Of course the government is in the business of
social engiineering. What do you think they are?Anarchists? The entire
purpose *of* the govenrment is to engineer the parts of society that don't
'fall into place' naturally.
Nice way to put it. If capitalism can't take care of it, then it's
time to look for other solutions.

I just witnessed the homeless sleeping on a nice little pier next to
the Intercontinental Hotel. The capitalist pigs ignore them; the
homeless got the best view over the bay. And the people, well, the
average people stay indoors watching TV, afraid to come out...

Is this the "capitalist paradise"? It looks like a jungle to me... :(
DonQuijote1954
2004-07-28 13:56:48 UTC
Permalink
Actually a better approach would to bring order into existing roads,
so more get there faster.
It's your one vote against millions of cretins'.
Good luck!
(But seriously: American-style square-intersections are a clusterfuck. A
couple years ago, I was in Mombasa, Kenya, where only one working street
light remains in town -- a square intersection in front of the
government center. The traffic jam near it lasts half the day. English
"round-abouts comprise all other intersections, and traffic flows at a
brisk 35mph at all hours.
Thanks. But there are a few other voices out there...

The Truth Will Emerge
The Truth Will Emerge
"Truth, crushed to earth, shall rise again, - -
The eternal years of God are hers;
But Error, wounded, writhes in pain,
And dies among his worshippers."

In the land of the fox, there's a Byrd that offers a glimmer of hope.
I was surprised by the clarity and courage of US Senator Robert C.
Byrd in squarely challenging the jungle. Look at this...

"The Truth Will Emerge"

Truth has a way of asserting itself despite all attempts to obscure
it. Distortion only serves to derail it for a time. No matter to what
lengths we humans may go to obfuscate facts or delude our fellows,
truth has a way of squeezing out through the cracks, eventually.

But the danger is that at some point it may no longer matter. The
danger is that damage is done before the truth is widely realized. The
reality is that, sometimes, it is easier to ignore uncomfortable facts
and go along with whatever distortion is currently in vogue. We see a
lot of this today in politics. I see a lot of it -- more than I would
ever have believed -- right on this Senate Floor.

Regarding the situation in Iraq, it appears to this Senator that the
American people may have been lured into accepting the unprovoked
invasion of a sovereign nation, in violation of long-standing
International law, under false premises. There is ample evidence that
the horrific events of September 11 have been carefully manipulated to
switch public focus from Osama Bin Laden and Al Queda who masterminded
the September 11th attacks, to Saddam Hussein who did not. The run up
to our invasion of Iraq featured the President and members of his
cabinet invoking every frightening image they could conjure, from
mushroom clouds, to buried caches of germ warfare, to drones poised to
deliver germ laden death in our major cities. We were treated to a
heavy dose of overstatement concerning Saddam Hussein's direct threat
to our freedoms. The tactic was guaranteed to provoke a sure reaction
from a nation still suffering from a combination of post traumatic
stress and justifiable anger after the attacks of 911. It was the
exploitation of fear. It was a placebo for the anger.

(snip)

Despite our high-blown claims of a better life for the Iraqi people,
water is scarce, and often foul, electricity is a sometime thing, food
is in short supply, hospitals are stacked with the wounded and maimed,
historic treasures of the region and of the Iraqi people have been
looted, and nuclear material may have been disseminated to heaven
knows where, while U.S. troops, on orders, looked on and guarded the
oil supply.

Meanwhile, lucrative contracts to rebuild Iraq's infrastructure and
refurbish its oil industry are awarded to Administration cronies,
without benefit of competitive bidding, and the U.S. steadfastly
resists offers of U.N. assistance to participate. Is there any wonder
that the real motives of the U.S. government are the subject of
worldwide speculation and mistrust?

(snip)

But, I contend that, through it all, the people know. The American
people unfortunately are used to political shading, spin, and the
usual chicanery they hear from public officials. They patiently
tolerate it up to a point. But there is a line. It may seem to be
drawn in invisible ink for a time, but eventually it will appear in
dark colors, tinged with anger. When it comes to shedding American
blood - - when it comes to wreaking havoc on civilians, on innocent
men, women, and children, callous dissembling is not acceptable.
Nothing is worth that kind of lie - - not oil, not revenge, not
reelection, not somebody's grand pipedream of a democratic domino
theory.

And mark my words, the calculated intimidation which we see so often
of late by the "powers that be" will only keep the loyal opposition
quiet for just so long. Because eventually, like it always does, the
truth will emerge. And when it does, this house of cards, built of
deceit, will fall.

http://byrd.senate.gov/byrd_speeche...may_list_2.html
DonQuijote1954
2004-07-29 01:52:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by DonQuijote1954
Nice way to put it. If capitalism can't take care of it, then it's
time to look for other solutions.
Capitalism let old people starve. That's why we now have Social Security.
Capitalism's failures gave us public schools, public universities, a
government-run military, interstate highways, etc.
Yet it's creating environmetal havoc left and right and up and down,
wars over resources that threaten our very survival, the highest penal
population in the world, parks that are occupied by the homeless,
unsafe roads where the big rule, junk food that's making our kids
addicts to something worst than cigarettes, endless commercial TV and
radio shows that offend our intelligence, lack of universal
healthcare, unsafe streets, and a few other social ills. Other than
that, capitalism is OK... ;(
DonQuijote1954
2004-07-29 10:54:49 UTC
Permalink
STUPID TRANSPORTATION vs. SMART TRANSPORTATION

Some just got and grab more oil to keep the gas-guzzling SUVs alive,
others provide CHOICES. What would you rather have?

Hey, Americanus Raptor, would you please move over? ;)

Transportation Alternatives

There are a number of beneficial forms of transportation that make our
lives easier, reduce congestion, reduce our dependence on cars &
foreign oil, are safer & less costly, and help save the planet:

1. TRAINS - Futuristic High-Speed trains like the Eurostar (pictured
above), the French TGV (right), & the Bullet train; Regional trains;
Monorails; Light rail; Trolleys; & Peoplemovers. Clean electric trains
are a major form of daily transportation all across Europe, and are
the single most powerful transportation choice that can solve serious
mobility, environmental, economic, health, and social problems on a
global scale.

2. BICYCLES - A major form of daily transportation in many countries.
Towns and cities have to be made bicycle-friendly to encourage their
wide use.

3. SCOOTERS - Electric and push types are heavily used in urban areas
as daily transportation.

4. ROLLERBLADES - Used in urban areas by many as daily transportation.

5. WALKING - An often forgotten way to get around because so many
places have been made hostle to pedestrians. Still the preferred
choice in dense urban areas.

(see pictures and details of beautiful bullet trains)

http://www.newurbanism.org/pages/416432/index.htm
DonQuijote1954
2004-07-29 11:10:59 UTC
Permalink
Why do you hate America?
He is a failure, will probably always be a failure, and he loves failure.
He is for everything that fails or is failing, especially Europe.
He hates success and thinks it is evil. That of course includes the cars
that almost everyone prefers over his favorites and of course he hate the US
since it is the dominant society in the world with productivity, most
watched arts, best technology, best Universities, the best and brightest
people coming from all over the world to work / live here, and a pluralistic
society allowing the most people to succeed.
This all must make him suffer in intolerable pain night and day. But being
a loser and a lover of losing, he has probably never experiences any of the
pleasures that are so abundant here,
Then again, you should come out of your guarded compound, where
everything is nice and green, and clean, and safe, and beutiful, and
face the real world, bro. It's a jungle out there... ;)

AND WHILE THE BIG SHOTS ARE INSULATED FROM THE PROBLEM,
DOWN THERE, IN THE GHETTO...

They have 40 *BILLION* dollars for the "War on Drugs" next year.

New prisons in almost every state, several new prisons in a few
states. And,
they get high in jail. Dope is as easy to buy in jail as it is out
here. All you need
is money. WTF are these people thinking???

40 *BILLION* dollars to continue a losing battle that is killing the
youth
of our country. Trying to get ahead in this society after having been
convicted of a drug crime is a real bleak future. I have a bud, an old
Navy
diver, who cant get a job driving a fucking truck, because he has a
felony
conviction for growing marijuana that goes back to 1974. The guy is a
10
year Navy veteran, made one simple mistake *26* years ago, has been in
*no*
trouble since, and can't get a fucking job that he can support himself
on. We
should be ashamed.

Do people realize that the population in 20 years is going to made up
of a
*significant* number of convicted felons who *can't* vote? And who are
going to be pissed off, and tired of being under the Big Brother
thumb. Tired
of a life of poverty because they made a mistake in their youth, and
have been
made to pay for it for their entire lives.

*Prisons are now being run at a profit by private corporations*. So,
if they
keep it up, they are creating a future labor force of cheap,
disposable
laborers who have been stripped of all rights, hope and dignity. "Act
right,
do the job we give you, or sit in a cage."

Look at it this way: I was in basic with a black kid from Detroit.
About 6
weeks in they found he had a heart murmur, and were going to discharge
him
as unfit. He was a model recruit, squared away and trying real hard to
be a
Marine. When he got the news, he told me "I ain't going back home,
man."
Later that night, he drank a half a can of Brasso.

For him, life in America offered two choices:
Be a Detroit Ghetto Black man, and spend your life in shit (like his
dad and
everyone he knows), or be a Marine (none of the other branches would
take
him). When he lost the option of getting out of Detroit, no matter the
cost,
he chose death rather than go home. Until that moment, I never
realized how
bad *some* children in this country have it. Grow up in a place where
you
never see anything but pigeons, dogs and cats. Never seen a cow. Since
that
moment, I have never forgot. If I grew up like most kids in the
ghettos of
America, I would be a gun totin, dope selling, white man hating, cop
shooting MF too, hoping to make that one big score, and get out (it's
either
dream, or work at McDonalds). Our prisons are full of them.

2 *MILLION* people in prison in the US right now, more than Russia or
China,
1/2 of those for dope.

We should, every last flag waving one of us, be ashamed of our
failure.

Scott
UniformSierraAlpha
2004-07-29 17:26:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by DonQuijote1954
Why do you hate America?
He is a failure, will probably always be a failure, and he loves failure.
He is for everything that fails or is failing, especially Europe.
He hates success and thinks it is evil. That of course includes the cars
that almost everyone prefers over his favorites and of course he hate the US
since it is the dominant society in the world with productivity, most
watched arts, best technology, best Universities, the best and brightest
people coming from all over the world to work / live here, and a pluralistic
society allowing the most people to succeed.
This all must make him suffer in intolerable pain night and day. But being
a loser and a lover of losing, he has probably never experiences any of the
pleasures that are so abundant here,
Then again, you should come out of your guarded compound, where
everything is nice and green, and clean, and safe, and beutiful, and
face the real world, bro. It's a jungle out there... ;)
AND WHILE THE BIG SHOTS ARE INSULATED FROM THE PROBLEM,
DOWN THERE, IN THE GHETTO...
They have 40 *BILLION* dollars for the "War on Drugs" next year.
New prisons in almost every state, several new prisons in a few
states. And,
they get high in jail. Dope is as easy to buy in jail as it is out
here. All you need
is money. WTF are these people thinking???
Keep the dopers in jail away from the rest of us?
Post by DonQuijote1954
40 *BILLION* dollars to continue a losing battle that is killing the
youth of our country. Trying to get ahead in this society after having been
convicted of a drug crime is a real bleak future. I have a bud, an old
Navy
diver, who cant get a job driving a fucking truck, because he has a
felony
conviction for growing marijuana that goes back to 1974. The guy is a
10
year Navy veteran, made one simple mistake *26* years ago, has been in
*no*
trouble since, and can't get a fucking job that he can support himself
on. We
should be ashamed.
Your navy bud should be ashamed the only job he bothered to try and
get was driving a truck. Try construction work. Try working two jobs
to make ends meet. He's a lazy sack of shit.
Post by DonQuijote1954
Do people realize that the population in 20 years is going to made up
of a
*significant* number of convicted felons who *can't* vote?
Say who? You?
Post by DonQuijote1954
And who are
going to be pissed off, and tired of being under the Big Brother
thumb. Tired
of a life of poverty because they made a mistake in their youth, and
have been
made to pay for it for their entire lives.
It's called taking responsibility for your life. A felony is a
felony. No one forced you bud to grow hooch. Now he pays the
consequences of his decision.
Post by DonQuijote1954
*Prisons are now being run at a profit by private corporations*. So,
if they
keep it up, they are creating a future labor force of cheap,
disposable
laborers who have been stripped of all rights, hope and dignity. "Act
right,
do the job we give you, or sit in a cage."
Good. They should clean the roads too. Bring back chain gangs.
Post by DonQuijote1954
Look at it this way: I was in basic with a black kid from Detroit.
About 6
weeks in they found he had a heart murmur, and were going to discharge
him
as unfit. He was a model recruit, squared away and trying real hard to
be a
Marine. When he got the news, he told me "I ain't going back home,
man."
Later that night, he drank a half a can of Brasso.
Be a Detroit Ghetto Black man, and spend your life in shit (like his
dad and
everyone he knows), or be a Marine (none of the other branches would
take
him). When he lost the option of getting out of Detroit, no matter the
cost,
he chose death rather than go home.
And that's why he's stupid and dead. Life is full of choices. He
saw only two.
Post by DonQuijote1954
Until that moment, I never
realized how
bad *some* children in this country have it. Grow up in a place where
you
never see anything but pigeons, dogs and cats. Never seen a cow. Since
that
moment, I have never forgot. If I grew up like most kids in the
ghettos of
America, I would be a gun totin, dope selling, white man hating, cop
shooting MF too, hoping to make that one big score, and get out (it's
either
dream, or work at McDonalds). Our prisons are full of them.
The poor have two options, get a decent education and get out of the
ghetto, or be stupid and breed the next generation of ghetto dwellers.

Looked and listened to the ghetto dwellers recently? Are the majority
of the people there (read: young males) staying in school, getting an
education so they can get a better life for themselves? A public
education is still available to everyone up until they are 18 in this
country. Or are these young blacks rapping and jiving, tripping over
they dragy pants legs, getting their 12 year old cousins pregnant,
leaving school at 15, doing drugs, hanging with a gang, and blaming
THE MAN for keeping them down?

What happens when a predominant black man tells them they are the
cause of their own problems and it's up to them to pull themselves out
of the ghetto? He gets booed and called uncle Tom. Ask Bill Cosby.
Post by DonQuijote1954
2 *MILLION* people in prison in the US right now, more than Russia or
China,
1/2 of those for dope.
We should, every last flag waving one of us, be ashamed of our
failure.
Why do you have such a problem with isolating the losers of society
from the rest of us?

Newsgroups trimmed.
Post by DonQuijote1954
Scott
M?rten
2004-07-30 00:37:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by DonQuijote1954
Why do you hate America?
He is a failure, will probably always be a failure, and he loves failure.
He is for everything that fails or is failing, especially Europe.
He hates success and thinks it is evil. That of course includes the cars
that almost everyone prefers over his favorites and of course he hate the US
since it is the dominant society in the world with productivity, most
watched arts, best technology, best Universities, the best and brightest
people coming from all over the world to work / live here, and a pluralistic
society allowing the most people to succeed.
This all must make him suffer in intolerable pain night and day. But being
a loser and a lover of losing, he has probably never experiences any of the
pleasures that are so abundant here,
Then again, you should come out of your guarded compound, where
everything is nice and green, and clean, and safe, and beutiful, and
face the real world, bro. It's a jungle out there... ;)
AND WHILE THE BIG SHOTS ARE INSULATED FROM THE PROBLEM,
DOWN THERE, IN THE GHETTO...
They have 40 *BILLION* dollars for the "War on Drugs" next year.
New prisons in almost every state, several new prisons in a few
states. And,
they get high in jail. Dope is as easy to buy in jail as it is out
here. All you need
is money. WTF are these people thinking???
40 *BILLION* dollars to continue a losing battle that is killing the
youth
of our country. Trying to get ahead in this society after having been
convicted of a drug crime is a real bleak future. I have a bud, an old
Navy
diver, who cant get a job driving a fucking truck, because he has a
felony
conviction for growing marijuana that goes back to 1974. The guy is a
10
year Navy veteran, made one simple mistake *26* years ago, has been in
*no*
trouble since, and can't get a fucking job that he can support himself
on. We
should be ashamed.
Do people realize that the population in 20 years is going to made up
of a
*significant* number of convicted felons who *can't* vote? And who are
going to be pissed off, and tired of being under the Big Brother
thumb. Tired
of a life of poverty because they made a mistake in their youth, and
have been
made to pay for it for their entire lives.
*Prisons are now being run at a profit by private corporations*. So,
if they
keep it up, they are creating a future labor force of cheap,
disposable
laborers who have been stripped of all rights, hope and dignity. "Act
right,
do the job we give you, or sit in a cage."
Look at it this way: I was in basic with a black kid from Detroit.
About 6
weeks in they found he had a heart murmur, and were going to discharge
him
as unfit. He was a model recruit, squared away and trying real hard to
be a
Marine. When he got the news, he told me "I ain't going back home,
man."
Later that night, he drank a half a can of Brasso.
Be a Detroit Ghetto Black man, and spend your life in shit (like his
dad and
everyone he knows), or be a Marine (none of the other branches would
take
him). When he lost the option of getting out of Detroit, no matter the
cost,
he chose death rather than go home. Until that moment, I never
realized how
bad *some* children in this country have it. Grow up in a place where
you
never see anything but pigeons, dogs and cats. Never seen a cow. Since
that
moment, I have never forgot. If I grew up like most kids in the
ghettos of
America, I would be a gun totin, dope selling, white man hating, cop
shooting MF too, hoping to make that one big score, and get out (it's
either
dream, or work at McDonalds). Our prisons are full of them.
2 *MILLION* people in prison in the US right now, more than Russia or
China,
1/2 of those for dope.
We should, every last flag waving one of us, be ashamed of our
failure.
Scott
I say that it should not be against the law to do drugs. I mean who
cares what someone else chooses to do to his or her own body (of
course, no driving under the influence). Sell them, tax them - just
like alcohol & cigarettes (don't smoke, don't know how to spell it).

As for the prisoners... Anyone who commits crimes (other than "drug
offences") shhould be doing HARD TIME. No sitting watching T.V. in
your jail cell, but chain-gangs picking lettuce (hence no need fo
illegal mexicans) and deeping the roads repaired (they all complain
about boredom/lack of exercise anyway). Pay them, but take half for
housing/food/etc.

The "war on drugs" has and never will be won.
DonQuijote1954
2004-07-30 17:10:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by M?rten
Post by DonQuijote1954
We should, every last flag waving one of us, be ashamed of our
failure.
Scott
I say that it should not be against the law to do drugs. I mean who
cares what someone else chooses to do to his or her own body (of
course, no driving under the influence). Sell them, tax them - just
like alcohol & cigarettes (don't smoke, don't know how to spell it).
As for the prisoners... Anyone who commits crimes (other than "drug
offences") shhould be doing HARD TIME. No sitting watching T.V. in
your jail cell, but chain-gangs picking lettuce (hence no need fo
illegal mexicans) and deeping the roads repaired (they all complain
about boredom/lack of exercise anyway). Pay them, but take half for
housing/food/etc.
The "war on drugs" has and never will be won.
I agree. The problem is EVERYTHING has become BIG BUSINESS... :(

Just Say Maybe

For an example of how NOT to make good health policy, consider the
international debate on drugs

Source: The Economist, April 5-11th 2003

The framework for global drug policies is set by three UN
conventions... [which] set rules prohibiting the production,
manufacture, trade, use or possession of potentially harmful drugs...
That means [the signataries] are, on the face of it, prevented from
experimenting with the idea that CONTROLLED, PERMITTED use
may be less harmful than the side-effects of prohibition.

Plenty of non-governmental organizations (NGOs) and even some
government ministers (in private, at least) now recognize that these
treaties and the policies they encourage are the WRONG WAY to tackle
drug abuse.

The arguments for a different approach have grown stronger, not
weaker, since 1998. The failure of the current policy has become much
clearer. There is no sign that government intervention has cut supply...
DonQuijote1954
2004-07-31 02:02:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by DonQuijote1954
I've got choices. I choose my gasoline-powered vehicles.
You would like communism. Only one option. ;)
Nyet.
You guys need Perestroika... ;)
Post by DonQuijote1954
operation and schedules, not to mention routing make them far less
convenient than the automobile. Light rail and trolleys are transport
with all the disadvantages of both buses and trains, except for the
diesel stink. Trains solve nothing.
Nothing except going 200mph... Can you beat that in your stupid SUV?
Don't have one. But a train going 200mph from a place I don't want to
be to a place I don't want to go doesn't help all that much. Such
high-speed trains, if they existed, would be competition for air
travel, not for driving, because of the distances and costs involved.
Man, if you have a fast train from Washington to Boston, you don't get
fewer vehicles on the road? It seems common sense to me...

Bullet Train Gets Rave Reviews
By LAURENCE ARNOLD, Associated Press Writer

BOSTON (AP) - For decades, the people running Amtrak had to wince when
Americans returning from overseas train trips proclaimed: ``Why can't
you do that here?''

U.S. rail officials think they've finally got an answer: the Acela
Express, a 150 mph bullet train that hit record speeds and grabbed
rave reviews Thursday on its debut Washington-to-Boston run.

A full load of VIPs nibbled on salmon, filet mignon, prosciutto and
caviar hors d'oeuvres as they made history aboard the first of 20
sleek new trains that will barrel along Amtrak's Northeast Corridor at
speeds approaching those of trains in Japan, France and elsewhere.

``Today's inaugural run symbolizes the beginning of a new era of
American transportation,'' Transportation Secretary Rodney Slater said
at a kickoff ceremony in Washington.

Regular service on the train begins Dec. 11 in the Northeast.
Legislation pending in Congress would help Amtrak raise $10 billion
over 10 years to construct other high-speed corridors around the
nation.

A nationwide system of high-speed rail would require billions of
public dollars to lay new track, straighten curves, eliminate highway
crossings and perform other upgrades of the nation's rail network.

``This is all about money,'' said Wisconsin Gov. Tommy Thompson, the
Amtrak chairman. He said the federal government gives short shrift to
railroads compared with its spending on highways and air travel.


http://www.trainweb.org/trainteam/railnews/story13.htm
Post by DonQuijote1954
Post by DonQuijote1954
2. BICYCLES - A major form of daily transportation in many countries.
Towns and cities have to be made bicycle-friendly to encourage their
wide use.
Great if you don't mind sweating in the summer, freezing in the
winter, not to mention getting soaked in the rain. And your commute
will likely take a lot longer, and forget about carrying anything
significant.
Good encouragement for Lance Armstrong, ah? You know what, he's riding
an obsolete transportation mode. And he ain't good at nothing. Are you
happy? ;)
Armstrong races professionally; that's different than riding for
transportation.
Post by DonQuijote1954
Post by DonQuijote1954
5. WALKING - An often forgotten way to get around because so many
places have been made hostle to pedestrians. Still the preferred
choice in dense urban areas.
Great, if you ain't going far. Like from your car to the door.
How can you walk if it is dangerous? Not an easy task in America...
Actually, quite easy. The problem with walking isn't the danger, it's
the fact that places are so damn far apart.
Excuses, excuses, excuses. Perestroika, perestroika, perestroika... ;)
DonQuijote1954
2004-08-01 16:23:04 UTC
Permalink
<Should we call a monoploy a dynasaur ?>

The dinosaur would be the obsolete industry/technologies we keep
feeding at the risk of environmental destruction and war. It would
smarter to say, "Hey, let's introduce new technologies in order to
save gas." But no, they must to the neighbor and grab more oil. A
recipe for trouble, is it not?

The dinosaur inspires fear, so the world must keep feeding him...
DonQuijote1954
2004-08-01 23:27:11 UTC
Permalink
We need Perestroika!

<Besides, trains aren't an option for everyone. Not everyone in my
small town works at the same place and the stores are all spread out.
Roads and small vehicles are the only option.

Years ago, there were small neighborhood grocery stores that could
easily be reached by walking. These have been replaced by large
grocery retailers at the edge of town. Its too far to walk.>

Exactly, SPRAWL makes the care "necessary," which is why it has being
promoted in America for the last 50 years.

However we can still have OPTIONS and let some people drive, and some
ride the train, and some walk...

Have you thought that the more people have OTHER options, the less
vehicles you have on the road? Unless, of course, you love to be stuck
in traffic...

This article presents a unique and very competitive approach to tackle
one of the bastions of socialism--or should I say communism?--in
America: the "free ride" on the roads...

How to End Traffic Jams - and Grow Smartly

By Robert H. Nelson, Ph.D.

Most people think traffic jams are a fact of life. However, we could
eliminate traffic congestion with the stroke of a pen. Traffic jams
are the inevitable and foreseeable consequence of current government
policy. If we changed the policy, the traffic congestion would
disappear.

In the United States - with a few toll road exceptions - the use of
highways is for free. Imagine what would happen if seats to Redskins
games were offered for free. It would be like current traffic jams.
Mobs of people would show up early, they would jostle for places in
line, and only a fortunate few would get through the stadium gates and
obtain seats. In effect, the "hassle" of getting into a Redskins game
would substitute for the price that we now pay for seats.

Our present highway system works like that. It might be described as a
last bastion of socialism in the United States. Under socialism,
everyone is equal - equally poor. In northern Virginia, we are all
equally stuck in traffic.

In the old Soviet Union, the price of apartments was very cheap, but
you had to wait fifteen years to get one. The price of meat was
subsidized, but it took hours of waiting in line to buy any. When
communism finally died in the old Soviet Union, the one immediate
change most noticeable in the daily life of the citizenry was the
elimination of lines. Market prices, instead of waiting in line,
became the rationing device for scarce goods and services.

In northern Virginia, we could do the same thing with traffic
congestion - the long waits in traffic would disappear as rapidly as
the food lines disappeared in the new Russia. All we have to do is to
price the use of space on our highways at its market value.

In a market, when something is scarce, you pay more for it; that is
elementary supply and demand. The available space on our highways is
scarcest at peak hours. If you want to drive at 2:00 A.M., there
should be no cost to anyone. If you want to drive at 8:00 A.M., many
thousands of other people want to drive then as well, more people than
the highways can accommodate. Instead of raising the price, however,
we use the old socialist approach - everyone has to wait in line for
an extra twenty minutes to one hour as traffic jams steadily increase
during rush hour.

Proposals to eliminate traffic congestion through highway pricing at
peak times are nothing new. Columbia University economist William
Vickery won a Nobel Prize in economics in part for developing the
economic details many years ago. What is new is low-cost technology to
implement congestion pricing of highways. Satellite tracking systems
now make it possible to follow the precise highway location of any
vehicle by time of day. Trucking companies at present routinely
monitor the locations of each vehicle in their fleet for management
purposes. We could easily do the same for cars. It would be like a
satellite based "Easy - Pass" system.

If you wanted to cross the Potomac River on the Wilson Bridge, use the
Beltway, or drive on I-66 at 8:00 A.M., you would have to pay. It
would be similar to a cell telephone system. You would pay depending
on where you are, where you are going, and the time of day. A computer
would keep track, and at the end of the month you would get a bill.

For highway users, they perhaps could see on a screen in their car
what they were paying at any given moment. If they wanted to plan a
future trip, they could inquire as to what alternative driving times
and routes would cost. If the price was too high, they could choose a
different route, travel at a different time, or join a car pool. Once
the kinks were worked out, traffic jams would be eliminated. If
traffic started to build regularly - say at the Wilson Bridge at 5:45
P.M. - the price would automatically increase. The price might have to
be adjusted a few times, but we can be sure that the lines would
eventually disappear.

Some people will object, no doubt, that highway pricing favors the
rich. Because they can afford it, the well-off will be able to sail
along the Beltway at the prime times without any delays. It is true
that in any market system the rich are more likely to drive Mercedes
Benzes and the poor used Chevrolets. That is how market capitalism
works. However, we must realize that a highway pricing system will
raise large revenues. These revenues could be used to improve the
public schools for the urban poor, or perhaps reduce the sales tax (a
regressive tax that disproportionately falls on the backs of the
socioeconomically disadvantaged).

The "smart growth" movement is feeding off suburban discontent with
traffic and other inconveniences of increasing numbers of people
moving into new areas. This is a legitimate complaint. However,
smart-growth proposals merely address the symptoms of the problem and,
in fact, make things worse. Smart-growth proposals to increase
densities actually jam more cars into less space.

The real cause of traffic congestion is the absence of any pricing
system for the use of our highways. Real "smart growth" would address
this problem directly. If we really want to be smart, we should
abolish our socialistic system of free public use of highways and
instead finally put market methods to work in this outmoded area of
our economy.

http://www.virginiainstitute.org/viewpoint/2002_18.html
DonQuijote1954
2004-08-02 03:25:38 UTC
Permalink
IOW, these Muslim fanatics are just like American car nuts. They need to
stop spewing hatred against everyone who does not want to live their lives
in a car.
We don't hate, we have just been correcting your lies and mistaken
statements which is what adults do. We just want you to pay your way and
stop stealing money that is needed to reduce or eliminate congestion.
The train people are causing great damage to society with the increased
pollution, fuel consumption, and increased CO2 they are causing by taking
funds away from the primary transportation mode. This problem must be
corrected for the good of society.
The cost of rail commute is somewhere in the range of $10 to $50 per commute
direction per person. When you are ready to pay your fair share as are car
drivers, then the problem will go away.
And when you pay yours. Your roads are highly SUBSIDIZED, a situation
that can perhaps be corrected by tolls. The proceeds from it then go
to SUBSIDIZE ALTERNATIVE TRANSPORTATION.
So the Muslim culture should be changed, but they shouldn't resist that,
let alone try to change ours... Funny.
Do you expect every Arab family to swap the camel for an SUV? Or
everyone of their kids get a 'happy meal' a day?
Think about it. If a car nut allowed that there was another acceptable
culture, then eventually someone would ask if our culture is as good as it
could be. Sooner or later, someone is going to figure out that our heavy
reliance on the private automobile is not optimal.
None of the train supporters have offered a single valid reason why this
would be true. All we gotten is half baked theories than are enevitatibley
wrong along with a lot of lies.
No, our proposal is fully cooked and ready to eat.
Now is your chance. Give a solid reason or two why more funding of transit
would make society more optimal. We know that it is not the environment,
How do you know? Twenty people in a trolley pollute less than 20 SUVs
on the road. We can ask grade school dropouts and I bet you they
figure it out...
We know that it is not reducing congestion.
Same question: What occupies more space, a trolley car or 20 SUVs?

Passing grade for 3rd grade... ;)
We know that it is not reduction of oil consumption.
Jesus, again, 20 SUVs consume less than a trolley?
We know that it is not reductions in CO2.
Actually we had it in mind, it works the other way around too?

Failing grade for 5th grade.
We know that it is not a more desirable commute for most people.
For many people, yes; for other people, no. People is not all the
same, contrary to Marxist theory.
We know that it is not for greater security from terrorist.
Well, the more money they got, the sooner they'd get the scary stuff.
Plus less reliance on foreign puppet regimes.
We know that it is not to move the infirm people around.
What do you want them to do, drive too? They do at the moment. Terror
on the roads.
We know that it is not the best or most cost effective solution for the
poor.
What's you solution, that they keep driving their beat-up
"transportations" until they finally fall apart?
What is the compelling advantage of transit?
Well, the burden of proof should be on your side. A BASIC TENET OF
CAPITALISM IS THAT COMPETITION IS GOOD. Prove that the CAR MONOPOLY is
good. And if it is, for who?
If the US military packed up their bags and left the Middle East today,
the Saudis and others would pick up the slack. They would build up a
great army to protect their wealth. While the price of oil would be much
higher (the Saudis would pass on their security costs), there is no reason
to believe that the marketplace would be instable. Even if there were
price instability, this could easily be solved by the futures market.
Do they have a technology base to build a modern military. No way and there
is probably no way they will get there. Do they have or will they ever
have the intelligence resources needed to fight the terrorist. Probably
never happen. I don't think you have any concept of how difficult it is to
build a highly effective miltary. It is not just learning to shoot.
Well, if they don't have it, buy it. Plenty of money and plenty of
mercenaries around. ;)
Are the terrorist only in Saudi Arabia. No, they are world wide. Fighting
terrorist must be a world wide effort.
Worldwide as well as personal effort. Some people though want to keep
partying like is 1999...
Its possible you could have a point, but I think the situation is far too
complex for a technically unsophisticated, small country like Saudi Arabia.
A single point failure like a weak Saudi Arabia would be a disaster.
A disaster... But for who? ;)
DonQuijote1954
2004-08-02 15:29:24 UTC
Permalink
This dialog stars with transportation but it goes into politics in
case you too see a connection between the two. We are talking here
about MONOPOLIES, BIG MONEY, AND THE SOLUTION: OPTIONS.

"Small is better"
@There is enough poverty now and if we load huge taxes for "real
costs"/ compensation/subsidies etc the cost of living will go up
hugely, as will the debt and the servicing costs which will increase
taxes further. Many will simply loose their jobs because they cant
afford to own and run a car and those who may have@

<Cost of production of the car by worker driving to work on bicycle or
who even lives in manufacturing area is lower than cost of worker
driving to work with SUV. Worker using SUV has to have salary paying
for SUV and petro. Cost of production done by walking class uses SUV
as a transportation is higher than cost production of anybody else.
People driving cars has to lose competition with people using
different transportation media . And this situation is on every
products, including the arms.>

True. Worker with a car uses all those precious resources that must
grabbed elsewhere. In other words, the whole world is paying for the
worker that must have a car, while he in turn is paying for the
oil--and insurance, tires, etc--to the transnationals. Of course, he's
a prey as well as predator, even if involuntary. Then whatever
threatens that flow of oil must be delt with--by military means if
necessary. Politicians--paid by the transnationals--make sure the
jungle continues.

Worker without a car though is not good for capitalist economy, but
he's better for society. It follows that the capitalist economy is NOT
very good for society, ah?

<To lower cost of SUV transportation the government has to own somehow
oil resources.
War for oil also has a price which is added to cost of competition. So
now government decided to own the world so NWO might dictate; You have
to buy our product for our price and selling us your goods also for
prices we are offering regardless of your cost , your life conditions
etc.>

Exactly. Oil wars are another externality that's absorbed by the whole
of society just to keep the whole thing going. Then the whole of
society is at risk when some decide to stop the thing. It seems to me
society is the only loser--twice.

<Coops purpose is tohelp to implement this idea .
Coops are event brightest NOW idea.
First and most important ; coops eliminate the leaders.
Will be then nobody to object and stand up against NWO propaganda., so
NWO can sleep soundly.>

Exactly. They diminish the need for the leader. But they also reject
NWO, which is internationalism on the terms of the lion, not of the
little animals.

<Coops would equally divided to everybody pot the modified corn or
rice; nobody might then die from starvation. NWO needs people to work
for them and be healthy.>

NWO needs SCARCITY, so the little animals fight for limited resources.
Abundance makes NWO--lion's order--obsolete.

<Coops would eradicate cigarettes, alcohol and drugs. People under
influence might stop to feel irredeemably and start see running the
things as they are. It has to be then eliminated.>

Why be paranoic? Coops do exist in kibbutz, Mondragon, etc, and
there's no such "eliminations."

< Nobody would be paid extra, because he might get enough money to
start idea of changing status quo.
Donq asked if he sees US good place for coops decided that Americans
are not material to the coops. And he is right. Coops are only
designed for NWO slaves so they wouldn-t stand against NWO, wouldn-t
think about participation in terrorism,etc.>

Again, coops are ANOTHER WATER WELL, nothing to do with the waterhole
the lion now controls. No need for the little animals to go and drink
from those polluter waters...

< Members of coops would think that present life is what god and world
created as best for them. >

So do many kibbutzim think. But they can live anytime and work for the
lion if they so miss him.

<Idea of coops is just an idea of happy slaves.>

Happy, yes. Slaves, no. They have OPTIONS. They can VOTE WITH THEIR
FEET. Not my idea of slaves.

< It is previous Hitler idea of chemical treatment for slaves to make
them happy, useful and peaceful.
Coops remitted this idea of happy slaves again; only instead of
treatment of gas is uses indoctrination. >

Under Hitler workers were to made to work 60 hours a week with no
unions. We should be working less--less than 40 hours I mean, perhaps
30.

<Only one biggest obstruction and this barrier is growing is
nationalism. People stop care for coalition with smiling uncle some
and start to build own defense.
Remember Yugoslavia. Slavs Unite!. >

Slavs are sick and tired of mega lions and mega projects. Small is
better...
DonQuijote1954
2004-08-03 04:21:38 UTC
Permalink
Anyone in this groups wants a dinosaur?

How can anyone deny the obvious? WE HAVE A MAJOR TRANSPORTATION CRISIS
and WE NEED TRANSPORTATION ALTERNATIVES. The dinosaur must evolve...

Transportation Crisis

The United States of America finds itself in a major transportation
crisis. The serious decline of all forms of transport, evident even
before September 11, has now become acutely obvious. A smooth running,
efficient transportation system is the life-blood of any strong
economy. It is especially needed now to respond to citizen's safety
and economic concerns, to speed the recovery of America, and to set
the country up for a prosperous future.

Presently, the bulk of all passenger transportation in America takes
place in airplanes and automobiles. Both of these systems continually
experience serious problems and safety issues. Most importantly, both
systems have reached their maximum capacity to effectively and
efficiently move the masses. The nation must now develop an
alternative transportation system embracing issues of safety, economic
stability, national security, and environmental sustainability. The
building of an extensive high-speed train network addresses these
important issues, and is the best solution to our current and future
transportation problems.

Recent events have demonstrated the fundamental weaknesses in the
aviation business, while automobile driving has proven increasingly
problematic. Neither form of transportation offers a long-term
solution to our growing problems. Our nation's aging road systems are
already overloaded, and therefore physically unable to pick up the
slack left by the airlines. Huge investments, totaling hundreds of
billions of dollars, are needed to shore up these ailing
transportation systems to prevent further collapse. Many thousands of
miles of roads and hundreds of bridges are in serious disrepair, and
in need of replacement. Additional investments (also in the hundreds
of billions of dollars) are needed to expand the roads and airports to
meet current and future demand. Both forms of transportation have
proven unable to meet today's demands without long delays and
congestion, and even with increased investment, it's doubtful these
systems will be able to meet future transportation demands. With so
many people permanently seeking alternative methods of travel, the
future of the entire airline industry is in question. A recent article
in Fortune magazine confirms the industry's unlikely survival. In a
review of the industry's 2001 financial performance before the
September 11th disaster, "the industry had already lost $2.5 billion
and was on track to lose $3.5 billion, its worst performance since
1992. Now the losses will be truly staggering: between $10 billion and
$11 billion. "With heavy debt, rapidly increasing expenses, and very
low operating margins, the reduction in paying customers will force
most, if not all airlines into bankruptcy." Flying is no longer an
economically feasible way of moving large numbers of people safely and
efficiently.

Our road system is in a similar crisis. Congestion has reached such a
serious state that basic mobility is in question as thousands of miles
of traffic jams spread across America daily. According to a recent US
News story, congestion has been rising at an alarming rate: "Since
1982, while the U.S. population has grown nearly 20 percent, the time
Americans spend in traffic has jumped an amazing 236 percent."
Additionally, our roads are extremely dangerous as over 42,000 people
die every year in car accidents – more than 12 times the number killed
in the recent terrorist disaster. A recent study published in the
journal Science says that auto pollution kills even more people than
car accidents. The Futurist ran a story recently that points out how
motor vehicle exhaust is the fastest growing contributor to climate
change. "Motor vehicles accounted for 58% of carbon emissions from
transportation in 1990, but their contribution grew to 73% by 1997."
The prospect of making our roads safe, and ever building enough of
them to solve the growing congestion problem seems unlikely due to the
extreme costs. The amount of physical and environmental damage
additional roads and airports would create make both forms of
transportation an undesirable, unsustainable solution.

As unlimited investment in airplane and auto travel is unlikely to
solve the present transportation challenge, there is a better
alternative.

WHY TRAINS ARE THE SOLUTION

Investing in a nationwide, high-speed train system solves many
problems at the same time. A new train system provides the best
solution for improving mobility, stimulating the economy, reducing
dependence on foreign oil, saving lives, and cleaning up the
environment. A high-speed train network will free up huge bottlenecks
in our transportation systems, encourage travel and commerce of all
forms, and would create thousands of jobs with one of the largest
public works construction projects in American history. A nationwide
train system will solve the problems facing both the airline and
automobile industries at the same time. Furthermore, it will cost a
great deal less than fixing either industry. A new train network will
significantly increase mobility in a safe, clean, fast, and efficient
way. This will make it easy and pleasurable to travel nationwide in a
seamless system of fast and sleek trains.

A new train system promotes many different goals for improving
society. Trains are the most effective way to encourage smart growth,
urban revitalization, and the creation of livable, walkable
communities. Trains greatly reduce congestion and air pollution, while
saving lives and preventing injuries. They are a sustainable form of
transportation that strengthens and stabilizes our economy, can help
break our dependence on foreign oil, and stem the transfer of our
countries' wealth to the increasingly unstable Middle East. A high
quality train system is a long-term, community-building investment
that benefits many. It is the smart transportation solution for our
society today, and well into the future. High-speed trains are a major
form of daily transportation all across Europe, many of them making a
profit for their operators, while providing safe, moderately priced
transportation for the public.

http://www.newtrains.org/pages/354050/index.htm
DonQuijote1954
2004-08-03 15:29:44 UTC
Permalink
We got to put the dinosaur on a diet, same as the fat lady...
The real solution? Make cars safer by moving them over long distances via
railcars handling them individually on an automated system.
The real solution is to INCREASE THE PRICE OF GAS. Stop subsidized
roads and gas. THEN ALTERNATIVE TRANSPORTATION WILL NATURALLY BECOME A
REALITY. And a bonus benefit will be greater security...

'We keep being told we are at war and yet no one is sacrificing for
the cause. Everywhere I turn I see Hummers and SUVs with American
flags waving from antennae like banana republic touring cars and
"United We Stand" and "We Support the Troops" on the bumpers.'

June 10

Gas Guzzlers
What will we be driving ´Day After Tomorrow´? Why we need higher gas
prices.
by Alan Bisbort

Hooray for higher gas prices. Yes, you heard me correctly. I'm glad
the price of gas is going up. I'm glad that The Day After Tomorrow is
the world's number-one box office hit. The weaknesses of its plot
notwithstanding, the film is the sort of bang-on-the-head most people
need to wake them from their daydream. Will people make the connection
between disastrous impacts of global warming and fossil fuel use? I've
given up trying to figure out what it takes to make people see the
truth, but anything that wakes them from their stupor long enough to
consider a new idea is a good thing. But about those gas prices. I'd
like to see them go even higher. Am I a masochist? No, a realist, a
pragmatist, or call me what you will. I was raised in a household
headed by a self-made American colonel who came of age in the Great
Depression and understood, to the very marrow in his bones, the adage,
"waste not want not."

Like father, like son. My father was a lifelong Republican of the old
and improved stripe, and there were many things on which we found
common ground, including fiscal responsibility, conserving and
protecting our natural resources, honoring promises, paying back debts
promptly (actually, not incurring debts if possible), doing an honest
day's work in exchange for an honest day's pay. My father lived to be
92. Throughout his long and active life, he was appalled by the waste
of Americans. The root of Americans' blissful ignorance, my father (an
engineer) was certain, was its cheap gas. Nowhere else in the world
was it so cheap, so taken for granted. He didn't make too many friends
sharing this thought with colleagues.

By what birthright do Americans think it is fitting and proper that we
squander the world's finite supply of fossil fuels? What delusion
about our superiority do we have that allows us to consume 75 percent
[I think it's 25%] of the world's natural resources while comprising 5
percent of the world's population? Looked at from a purely religious
perspective -- one that Americans insist they abide by -- we are all
equal in the eyes of God. But we act as if we really believe what
Orwell said in Animal Farm , "Some animals are more equal than
others."

Taking it further, I'd like the price of gas go even higher, with the
currently proposed 50-cent-per-gallon tax hike to be used to
underwrite the start-up costs of a viable long-term national energy
policy that will tap into alternative fuels and reusable energy
sources. Advocating for this hike, the University of Maryland's Robert
Park noted, "We need conservation. High gas prices are already pushing
SUV sales down, but it was OPEC that pushed the price up. If we plan
to declare war on every country led by a bad guy, we'll need tax
revenue. We could also think about making CAFE [corporate average fuel
economy] standards apply to all passenger cars, even if they're SUVs
and weigh as much as cement trucks. As the price of gas goes up, the
air gets cleaner, people return to the inner cities, traffic is
reduced, less time is wasted commuting."

The price of gas should also be gauged at the pump to reward those who
drive more fuel-efficient cars, so that someone who drives, say, a
Toyota Echo would pay 2.50 for the same gallon of gas that would cost
an SUV driver $4, and, conversely, the driver of a hybrid car $2.
Hummer drivers would, therefore, pay the highest price for the dubious
status these cars apparently provide. (Gas prices for transit trucks,
buses, mass transit, and other vehicles performing vital roles, would
not be affected by these price hikes). This isn't punishment. It's
called an incentive system. And it's about time.

During World War II, Americans pitched in by carpooling, planting
victory gardens and rationing gas. Signs were posted everywhere that
read, "Is This Trip Necessary?" and "When You Ride Alone You Ride With
Hitler." Few people got on their high horses about an individual's
inalienable right to be a glutton, and those who did were quickly
shouted down for the jackasses they were. In short, people got the
message, and cooperated. Seldom, in fact, has there been a more
unified American populace.

So what's the difference today? We keep being told we are at war and
yet no one is sacrificing for the cause. Everywhere I turn I see
Hummers and SUVs with American flags waving from antennae like banana
republic touring cars and "United We Stand" and "We Support the
Troops" on the bumpers.

Oh, but this war in Iraq is not about oil, is it? In case you missed
it, the Muzhir al-Dulaymi, spokesman for the League for the Defence of
Iraqi Peoples' Rights has said that the United States is
systematically liberating the Iraqi people from their oil.

"A daylight robbery is going on in Iraq. I have first hand information
from sources in al-Bakr port in southern Iraq, and in the Turkish port
of Jihan, confirming that three million oil barrels are being taken
out of Iraq on a daily basis," Dulaymi said, adding that the Bush
administration, and its oil company supporters, are benefiting from
the process.

http://thomasmc.com/0610ab.htm
EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)
2004-08-04 02:53:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by DonQuijote1954
We got to put the dinosaur on a diet, same as the fat lady...
The real solution? Make cars safer by moving them over long distances via
railcars handling them individually on an automated system.
The real solution is to INCREASE THE PRICE OF GAS.
You must be rather young! I can remember when there was first talk of
gas prices increasing from the 39 cents a gallon we were paying to
somewhere in the neighborhood of 50 or 55 cents. There was much moaning
and groaning, and many people argued that "no one will pay that much".
(Doesn't seem as though all the subsequent price increases has done much
to discourage people drivng - or even encouraged them to insist upon
fuel efficient cars!)
Post by DonQuijote1954
Stop subsidized
roads and gas. THEN ALTERNATIVE TRANSPORTATION WILL NATURALLY BECOME A
REALITY. And a bonus benefit will be greater security...
'We keep being told we are at war and yet no one is sacrificing for
the cause. Everywhere I turn I see Hummers and SUVs with American
flags waving from antennae like banana republic touring cars and
"United We Stand" and "We Support the Troops" on the bumpers.'
June 10
Gas Guzzlers
What will we be driving ´Day After Tomorrow´? Why we need higher gas
prices.
by Alan Bisbort
Hooray for higher gas prices. Yes, you heard me correctly. I'm glad
the price of gas is going up. I'm glad that The Day After Tomorrow is
the world's number-one box office hit. The weaknesses of its plot
notwithstanding, the film is the sort of bang-on-the-head most people
need to wake them from their daydream. Will people make the connection
between disastrous impacts of global warming and fossil fuel use? I've
given up trying to figure out what it takes to make people see the
truth, but anything that wakes them from their stupor long enough to
consider a new idea is a good thing. But about those gas prices. I'd
like to see them go even higher. Am I a masochist? No, a realist, a
pragmatist, or call me what you will. I was raised in a household
headed by a self-made American colonel who came of age in the Great
Depression and understood, to the very marrow in his bones, the adage,
"waste not want not."
Like father, like son. My father was a lifelong Republican of the old
and improved stripe, and there were many things on which we found
common ground, including fiscal responsibility, conserving and
protecting our natural resources, honoring promises, paying back debts
promptly (actually, not incurring debts if possible), doing an honest
day's work in exchange for an honest day's pay. My father lived to be
92. Throughout his long and active life, he was appalled by the waste
of Americans. The root of Americans' blissful ignorance, my father (an
engineer) was certain, was its cheap gas. Nowhere else in the world
was it so cheap, so taken for granted. He didn't make too many friends
sharing this thought with colleagues.
By what birthright do Americans think it is fitting and proper that we
squander the world's finite supply of fossil fuels? What delusion
about our superiority do we have that allows us to consume 75 percent
[I think it's 25%] of the world's natural resources while comprising 5
percent of the world's population? Looked at from a purely religious
perspective -- one that Americans insist they abide by -- we are all
equal in the eyes of God. But we act as if we really believe what
Orwell said in Animal Farm , "Some animals are more equal than
others."
Taking it further, I'd like the price of gas go even higher, with the
currently proposed 50-cent-per-gallon tax hike to be used to
underwrite the start-up costs of a viable long-term national energy
policy that will tap into alternative fuels and reusable energy
sources. Advocating for this hike, the University of Maryland's Robert
Park noted, "We need conservation. High gas prices are already pushing
SUV sales down, but it was OPEC that pushed the price up. If we plan
to declare war on every country led by a bad guy, we'll need tax
revenue. We could also think about making CAFE [corporate average fuel
economy] standards apply to all passenger cars, even if they're SUVs
and weigh as much as cement trucks. As the price of gas goes up, the
air gets cleaner, people return to the inner cities, traffic is
reduced, less time is wasted commuting."
The price of gas should also be gauged at the pump to reward those who
drive more fuel-efficient cars, so that someone who drives, say, a
Toyota Echo would pay 2.50 for the same gallon of gas that would cost
an SUV driver $4, and, conversely, the driver of a hybrid car $2.
Hummer drivers would, therefore, pay the highest price for the dubious
status these cars apparently provide. (Gas prices for transit trucks,
buses, mass transit, and other vehicles performing vital roles, would
not be affected by these price hikes). This isn't punishment. It's
called an incentive system. And it's about time.
During World War II, Americans pitched in by carpooling, planting
victory gardens and rationing gas. Signs were posted everywhere that
read, "Is This Trip Necessary?" and "When You Ride Alone You Ride With
Hitler." Few people got on their high horses about an individual's
inalienable right to be a glutton, and those who did were quickly
shouted down for the jackasses they were. In short, people got the
message, and cooperated. Seldom, in fact, has there been a more
unified American populace.
So what's the difference today? We keep being told we are at war and
yet no one is sacrificing for the cause. Everywhere I turn I see
Hummers and SUVs with American flags waving from antennae like banana
republic touring cars and "United We Stand" and "We Support the
Troops" on the bumpers.
Oh, but this war in Iraq is not about oil, is it? In case you missed
it, the Muzhir al-Dulaymi, spokesman for the League for the Defence of
Iraqi Peoples' Rights has said that the United States is
systematically liberating the Iraqi people from their oil.
"A daylight robbery is going on in Iraq. I have first hand information
from sources in al-Bakr port in southern Iraq, and in the Turkish port
of Jihan, confirming that three million oil barrels are being taken
out of Iraq on a daily basis," Dulaymi said, adding that the Bush
administration, and its oil company supporters, are benefiting from
the process.
http://thomasmc.com/0610ab.htm
DonQuijote1954
2004-08-04 12:17:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)
Post by DonQuijote1954
We got to put the dinosaur on a diet, same as the fat lady...
The real solution? Make cars safer by moving them over long distances via
railcars handling them individually on an automated system.
The real solution is to INCREASE THE PRICE OF GAS.
You must be rather young! I can remember when there was first talk of
gas prices increasing from the 39 cents a gallon we were paying to
somewhere in the neighborhood of 50 or 55 cents. There was much moaning
and groaning, and many people argued that "no one will pay that much".
(Doesn't seem as though all the subsequent price increases has done much
to discourage people drivng - or even encouraged them to insist upon
fuel efficient cars!)
Yeah, rather young. Only 50... ?

But going back to the subject. The prices we got at the moment still
allow you to enjoy the gax-guzzling culture. When the prices really go
up past the $3 or $4 range and European cars--like Renault and
Peugeot--are freely allowed in the States, we may start seeing
changes. In the meantime, the Jurassic still rules here...
DonQuijote1954
2004-08-07 10:21:29 UTC
Permalink
I think that's part of the problem with American drivers: for them
driving is a chore. Perhaps driving better cars (stick shift, sport
suspensions, etc) on demanding roads (autobahn conditions) would do
the trick. Otherwise they should be riding the bus.
A stick shift does nothing to make the commute to work even 1 little bit more
fun. A stick shift with a DAMN BIG ENGINE might, but not just a stick. Put
that stick behind a huge V8, and inside the chassis of a Corvette - now yer
talkin. But, I prolly can't afford it, definitely don't want to try to afford
it, and would much rather be able to ride to work, as long as I don't have to
share space with anyone else I don't know, like you have to on a bus, train,
airplane, etc., nor be subject to someone else's pinhead rules about not
eating, drinking, playing the radio, etc. like on the Washington Metro subway,
where they carry off 12 year old girls in handcuffs for having a french fry on
the platform.
That was probably because the fries were French... ;)

But going back to the subject: I don't understand if there are so many
drivers in America for who driving is getting from point A to point B,
and driving is a chore, to be palliated be eating, drinking, talking
on the phone, why do you defend so stubbornly driving as your only
option?

HOW CAN YOU LOVE SOMETHING THAT YOU HATE SO MUCH? :(
DonQuijote1954
2004-08-10 11:48:52 UTC
Permalink
\> Yes, it was extremely short-sighted of us to have allowed the rail
lines to atrophe and be ripped up. Now it's going to cost billions to
replace them (if the ROW hasn't been sold off to some developer in the
meantime).
Its not short sighted, it is the normal for technologies to die off. We
are not going to build back rail systems. They failed because they were
never as good as cars are now or even in the 1920's .
"Progress" at the price of environmental destruction and war over oil.
What's next, catastrophe?
People will never go back to low quality, antiquated technology when what
they have is a far better match to their needs.
I like the technological superiority of a fine piece of machinery such
as a truck disguised as a family vehicle. But semis are even better...
;)
To believe that trains are going to come back is technically the same as
believing that the Internet is going away to be replaced with text terminals
attached to mainframes. Isn't France still trying their text terminal main
frame alternative to the Internet?
I think they still insist in having their own language!
Of course I doubt you understand that with your almost total lack of
understanding of technology progress.
It also takes a lack of understanding of how *politics* works around
here. It's not that complicated...

BIG MONEY=GOOD
LITTLE MONEY=BAD

This statement is accurate with an error margin of +/-.000001%
DonQuijote1954
2004-08-14 01:09:30 UTC
Permalink
is, "I got mine, to hell with everybody else." You make a good Republican.
You are being nonresponsive, appealing to emotion, and being insulting.
Like most liberals you cannot discuss this logically but instead want
to discuss it emotionally. I refuse to. Your goal isn't to solve problems,
your goal is to take from one group, give to another, and create a
constant, never ending cycle of dependence.
Brent, let's be creative, let's be free-thinkers here.

There's two ways to help the poor: TAXATION, which is rejected by many
people, and HELPING THE POOR HELP THEMSELVES, which is what I propose.
The poor must be helped, for themselves and for the rest of
society--crime, homelessness are just two ways in which society pays a
heavy price for its indifference.

One solution is the COOPERATIVE, where the poor can lift themselves
up, or "learn to fish." It can even happen in a small decentralized
government like that of Switzerland. It won't take any effort from
people like you. Your neutrality will be good enough.

This is what I propose...

A ROAD TO FREEDOM (UNLIKE RUSSIA'S)

Why not build a new system? That offers PROSPERITY, SOCIAL JUSTICE and
FREEDOM; that discards the defects of both Communism and Capitalism;
and that places the system at the service of the human being, and not
the other way around. Why not HUMANISM?

Naturally, education and health care should be the maximum priorities;
they should be free -or affordable, in the case of higher education-
and accessible to all. Education should emphasize the learning of
English -or Esperanto, if we all ever agree on it- and literacy... in
computers. Likewise, culture and sports should receive special
attention (for example, adopting the affordable child-care centers; in
general, we would have much to learn from the Scandinavian model). A
MIXED MODEL, that includes competition and cooperation, would create a
healthy competition, and it would allow to satisfy the material and
human needs of all. (In this way, the cooperative enterprises would be
forced to become more efficient, while capitalist enterprises would be
forced to become more humane; we would have much to learn from the
Israeli kibbutz [non-profit cooperatives]; and from the industrial
cooperatives of Mondragon, in the Basque Country [a "workers
capitalism"].) We should seek full employment (for instance, by
creating jobs in the construction of the transportation
infrastructure; but, if unemployment persists, the work time could be
reduced). Public transportation should be A1. (The city of Curitiba,
in Brazil, offers us a functional model of transportation; bicycle
lanes should be implemented along all major streets.) The homeless,
who now occupy our better parks, should be incorporated into light but
necessary duties, like picking up litter, in exchange for a decent
wage; there should be no homeless. (Again, Curitiba is a model on
this.) Junk food should have a warning label (just like cigarettes),
particularly the one destined to children, and also be taxed to
subsidize healthy alternatives. Housing should be available at popular
prices. (Prefabricated multifamily units can help accomplish this; the
movement of "new urbanism" can provide them with a sense of community
and quality of life, say by having abundant green areas.) Public
corruption should be treated as "public enemy No.1." TV and radio
should be independent of Big Business and the State. (This is due to
two reasons: culturally, because the ratings make bad programs become
"good"... for business; and, politically, because whoever has power
over the media... will be in power; however, people should be able to
watch anything on video and cable; the BBC offers us and example of an
independent media.) The "Free Press" should be democratized, so that,
among other things, the censorship of the opinions of the public is
eradicated. Politics should become cheaper to avoid its control by
powerful groups (for example, offering free time on TV to the
candidates; we would have much to learn from the political model of
Switzerland [in particular, its political decentralization and its
opportunity to "vote with your feet" between cantons]). Nevertheless,
we should never follow neither anything nor anyone -including myself-
blindly. And, of course, everything can be improved. Something to
think about: While the prohibition of drugs has been largely
ineffective and costly (in money, lives, crime), regulated
legalization -like that of Holland- can be a better solution to both
addiction and crime. And living free from fear of crime should be
treated as a basic need of society. In general, our policy should be
that of "teaching them how fish," not of "giving them the fish." The
final form of this system would be determined by the acceptance of the
people themselves: Each and everyone of these proposals should be
submitted to referendum. And, the basis of everything else: We should
learn to live, not FROM, but WITH Nature. This would amount to COMING
OUT OF THE JUNGLE.


NOTE: I have intentionally provided several paths to prosperity and
justice. Actually I think THE BEST OPTION IS TO HAVE OPTIONS.
Scandinavia ranks #1 in standard of living, but has the lowest
corruption in the world, something unlikely to be matched right away
in the regions that most need it. Besides they pay the highest taxes
on Earth. So there are two major options left: First, the
decentralized Swiss system that accomplishes a lot with lower taxation
under a very simple democratic principle: VOTE WITH YOUR FEET among
cantons and communes; second, the cooperatives that exist in places
like Israel, Basque Country and even Denmark. These are probably the
highest level of cooperation among humans. We can say there's no lion
in them. I favor the policy of, "DON'T GIVE 'EM THE FISH, BUT TEACH
'EM HOW TO FISH," in which case the last examples fair better, though
they require greater POLITICAL MATURITY.
What do you accomplish with regards to society when you eliminate
consquences to irresponsible behavior and penalize responsible behavior
with a taxes designed to take from those who do the later and give
to those that do the former? What do you accomplish by this, long
term, not short term of giving a kid a full belly tonight, but LONG TERM?
What kind of adult does that kid become? What is a more likely future
for that kid? To start having children at 16 years old, drop out of
high school and follow what his parents did or spontatously work hard
in school and become a wage earning professional? What is the more
likely consquence of your handouts?
Instead of just handing out money, make it so they don't need handouts
to live. Create oppertunity, break the cycle. But that means less power
for the liberals, the socialists. No dependency means no power, so that
is unlikely to happen.
True, we don't want dependency, but we don't want jungle either,
right?

There's political compass where people like you (Right Libertarian)
and me (Left Libertarian) both fall under the horizontal line that
reject AUTHORITY, what I call the "lion." In other words,
they--conservatives and communists--have a lion that hates COMPETITION
running the jungle. You don't hate COMPETITION, do you?

http://www.politicalcompass.org/

By the way, both COMPETITION AND COOPERATION are forces of Nature.

Competition, Cooperation or Both? See...

http://webspawner.com/users/donquijote14

DonQuijote1954
2004-08-03 16:15:09 UTC
Permalink
This is a Poll on whether we want to keep the dinosaur.

http://engforum.pravda.ru/showthread.php3?threadid=90139&perpage=15&pagenumber=1

You gotta register to vote, but, hey, your vote may be more important
than in the next presidential elections... ;)
DonQuijote1954
2004-08-04 00:40:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by DonQuijote1954
Anyone in this groups wants a dinosaur?
Like a 19th century train? That would be you.
No, like 19th Century Capitalism... ;)

Remember Ross Perot, the $.50 gas tax? The poor rich man. The Press
almost accused him of communist... :(

"Now, see, we practice 19th century capitalism."

PEROT: Defense industries are going to have to convert to civilian
industries. Many of them are. And the sooner they start, the sooner
they'll finish. And there will be a significant transition. And it's
very important that we not continue to let our industrial base
deteriorate. We had someone who I'm sure regrets said it in the
president's staff said he didn't care whether we made potato chips or
computer chips. Well, anybody that thinks about it cares a great deal.
Number one, you make more making computer chips than potato chips;
and, number 2, 19 out of 20 computer chips that we have in this
country now come from Japan. We've given away whole industries. So as
we phase these industries over, there's a whole of intellectual talent
in these industries. A lot of these people in industries can be
converted to the industries of tomorrow, and that's where the
high-paying jobs are. We need to have a very carefully thought through
phase-over. Now, see, we practice 19th century capitalism. The rest of
the world practices 21st century capitalism. I can't handle that in a
minute, but I hope we can get back into it later. In the rest of the
world, the countries and the businesses would be working together to
make this transition in an intelligent way.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/debatingourdestiny/92debates/1stprez2.html
DonQuijote1954
2004-08-04 06:05:32 UTC
Permalink
They say American are becoming too fat. What's
next, have the government place a high tax food so
some folks don't eat too much. If I felt about SUV's
the way you do I would not buy an SUV, if I were you.
Absolutely. And houses are too big, we eat out too much, and travel far
too much. We need to give up vacations and work harder.
I was going to advise the opposite: you work too much and have too
little vacation to pay for the SUV. :(


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DonQuijote1954
2004-07-30 03:50:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by DonQuijote1954
Some just got and grab more oil to keep the gas-guzzling SUVs alive,
others provide CHOICES. What would you rather have?
I've got choices. I choose my gasoline-powered vehicles.
You would like communism. Only one option. ;)
Post by DonQuijote1954
Transportation Alternatives
There are a number of beneficial forms of transportation that make our
lives easier, reduce congestion, reduce our dependence on cars &
1. TRAINS - Futuristic High-Speed trains like the Eurostar (pictured
above), the French TGV (right), & the Bullet train; Regional trains;
Monorails; Light rail; Trolleys; & Peoplemovers. Clean electric trains
are a major form of daily transportation all across Europe, and are
the single most powerful transportation choice that can solve serious
mobility, environmental, economic, health, and social problems on a
global scale.
High speed trains cost a fortune to build and maintain. Even with
heavy state subsidies, they cost a fortune to ride on. And their
fixed routing makes them extremely inflexible. Regional trains, same
thing except they are more economical to ride; their infrequent
operation and schedules, not to mention routing make them far less
convenient than the automobile. Light rail and trolleys are transport
with all the disadvantages of both buses and trains, except for the
diesel stink. Trains solve nothing.
Nothing except going 200mph... Can you beat that in your stupid SUV?
Post by DonQuijote1954
2. BICYCLES - A major form of daily transportation in many countries.
Towns and cities have to be made bicycle-friendly to encourage their
wide use.
Great if you don't mind sweating in the summer, freezing in the
winter, not to mention getting soaked in the rain. And your commute
will likely take a lot longer, and forget about carrying anything
significant.
Good encouragement for Lance Armstrong, ah? You know what, he's riding
an obsolete transportation mode. And he ain't good at nothing. Are you
happy? ;)
Post by DonQuijote1954
3. SCOOTERS - Electric and push types are heavily used in urban areas
as daily transportation.
*snicker*
Electric little machines are becoming fashion. Haven't you tried them?
;)
Post by DonQuijote1954
4. ROLLERBLADES - Used in urban areas by many as daily transportation.
All the disadvantages of bicycles, plus slower and more dangerous.
Not to mention illegal in many cities. At least you don't have to
worry much about where to put them. And I say this as an inline
skater myself.
If you don't have good bike lanes they may not work. But if you did,
you could fast with little risk. I'm a skater too.
Post by DonQuijote1954
5. WALKING - An often forgotten way to get around because so many
places have been made hostle to pedestrians. Still the preferred
choice in dense urban areas.
Great, if you ain't going far. Like from your car to the door.
How can you walk if it is dangerous? Not an easy task in America...

Source: Talking Point, BBC News

Having lived in the US last year, I can say most of the comments here
belittling this lawsuit stem from ignorance of life in the US. People
here in the UK are MUCH more aware of what is healthy. In the US "Big
Food" dominates the airwaves and the vast majority of people are
genuinely misinformed. Americans live off processed food regularly
now.
Having said that, I think the lawsuit is partially misguided because
bad
food is no more than half the problem of obesity that is now coming to
the fore in the US. The other half is the lifestyle the country
imposes
on people. In the US you are literally FORCED to drive everywhere -
even
a 5 minute hop to a local supermarket. People live in a system where
they do everything sitting down. So it is not just that massive
amounts
of calories (with little nutrition) are readily and cheaply on offer,
but that burning any of it off in the normal course of a day is near
impossible.
James, UK
Valfer
2004-07-30 17:17:46 UTC
Permalink
I America, you drive. If you walk, skate or ride a bike, you get run
over by a car.

Valfer
Post by DonQuijote1954
Some just got and grab more oil to keep the gas-guzzling SUVs alive,
others provide CHOICES. What would you rather have?
(Blah, blah, etc.)
EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)
2004-07-30 20:24:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Valfer
I America, you drive. If you walk, skate or ride a bike, you get run
over by a car.
Too true, alas! (But are you saying that's a GOOD thing?) And some
U.S. cities, more enlightened than Los Angeles, actually have reliable
public transportation, and people USE it!
La Donna Mobile
2004-07-30 21:00:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)
Post by Valfer
I America, you drive. If you walk, skate or ride a bike, you get run
over by a car.
Too true, alas! (But are you saying that's a GOOD thing?) And some
U.S. cities, more enlightened than Los Angeles, actually have reliable
public transportation, and people USE it!
#


In NYC it's really really ace and so very very inexpensive(or was in '99 -
seems such a long time ago). As long as you don't expect the buses meeting
the ferry on Staten Island to wait around while you go in the shop to buy
beer....!

I love the flashy flashy lights on the DC Metro, but was informed a couple
of years back by a DC native that they aren't really that helpful...

And the Streetcars in New Orleans...I will wager a large amount that one was
named Desire.

(see, I'm on topic - just!)
DonQuijote1954
2004-07-31 02:33:56 UTC
Permalink
Not being honest eh?
Howdy Ian, we spoke about it the other day. The Law of the Jungle
killing America from inside out, be it transportation, doctors or
whatever. It's only about "love"--for the dollar of course...

Reader Views: Love of dollar or love of people

By Jessie Goins
Cabot

The death of America is being brought about not by a foreign
government, but our own doctors, lawyers and insurance companies.
Slowly and inperceptably our doctors are killing America one patient
at a time because of their love for the dollar.

They are not treating patients who don't have insurance or the money
to pay for their viist. The doctors in this county will not even see a
patient if that patient can't pay for his services. Even though they
leave the dirty deed of turning away patients to their office staff,
it is still the doctor's order the staff is carrying out.

Back in the old days, doctors cared more about healing the sick more
than the money they make. In the old days, the doctor would be paid in
cash if the patient can afford it, or in trade if they had no cash or
if the patient was truly poor the doctors would do it pro-bono.

I do not know for sure what exactly changed this to what it is today,
maybe frivilous lawsuits against doctors or maybe just greedy people
becoming doctors but something changed the helpful nature of the
doctor. I understand that today the doctors must carry malpractice
insurance and that need is brought about greedy lawyers and insurance
companies. So doctors are not wholly to blame for the direction of
health care in this country, but they do maintain their share of the
responsibility for it.

Caring should be more important to the doctor than paying for a big
fancy house or that really expensive boat or car. Doctors, lawyers and
insurance companies do not want a national health care system in this
country because it might mean a cut in pay for them. I don't pretend
to know much about socialized medicine, but as a poor person I do know
how hard it is to get health care in the country.

I personally have medicare, which does help somewhat, but my wife is
unemployed (and possibly unemployable) has no insurance. I have had to
resort to waiting for her symptoms to get worse and take her to ER for
treatment, which then makes a hugh bill that we have to either ignore
or find some grant to pay for, which makes us feel like some sort of
low life.

There has to be something better in this great nation than just
ignoring the poor and allowing them to eventually die because they
cannot get the money to be treated by a doctor.

It does not matter who holds the office of the president because it
has always been the same under all political parties.

This tells me the responsibility belongs to the doctors, lawyers and
insurance companies themselves and not just the politicians.

I do not know what can be done to fix this system or if it can even be
fixed. It might just be the law of the jungle where only the strong
will survive, but I will not go down without a word.

This is my word and I hope I might have inspired someone to try and
change a broken system before we lose too many lives.
DonQuijote1954
2004-07-31 02:15:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Valfer
I America, you drive. If you walk, skate or ride a bike, you get run
over by a car.
Valfer
Well, I forgot, and the school system sucks as you may appreciate in
the sentence above. ;)
DonQuijote1954
2004-07-30 20:31:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by DonQuijote1954
Nothing except going 200mph... Can you beat that in your stupid SUV?
Planes beat that easily. 500 mph. Cost: one-third as much to run.
"Once more the special interests stand in the way of progress!"

How are planes alleviating the long line of predeluvian SUVs between
Miami and Key West? Dinosaurs in Paradise, we may call them. ;)

Fact is, Key West had both a train and a trolley, that were
respectively destroyed by nature and General Motors in the 1930s.

Places like this, and some others where hight intensity traffic is
common place do need a bullet train. Florida is indeed among them...

***

What is a "bullet train"?

A bullet train or high speed rail is a train that goes very fast, at
leaset 125 mph. Some trains used in Japan and Europe can go more than
200 mph. It is not like any of the conventional trains, light rail or
subways in the U.S. today.

Transportation experts believe bullet trains can operate economically
in many parts of the U.S., including Florida.

***

"This whole discussion on the high-speed railroad is such a waste of
time.
Look around and see how this modern means of transportation has made
inroads in practically all industrialized countries. Already we are
falling way behind.

Money is never a problem when a worthwhile venture is involved, and
this one is inevitable. Waiting will only make it more expensive.

Once more the special interests stand in the way of progress!"

Carl Muller

http://www.floridabullettrain.com/
DonQuijote1954
2004-07-31 04:14:59 UTC
Permalink
Nice. But Xena is an exhibitionist. ;)
Like I said, the perfect place for her.... ;-P
Hey Paul, I only wished she chose a parking lot or something and did
"it." Problem is the inattentive Masturbator type driver represents a
danger to the smaller, law-abiding vehicles paying no attention to
traffic, lights, stops, etc. Needless to say the Copulator, whose
aggressive behavior makes him the terror of the road, the King of the
Road. :(

This an interesting article on these antisocial masturbatory-aggresive
psychos. I wouldn't classify drivers though in "tough" and "soft," but
in middle-of-the-road average American driver, good sport drivers, and
bad-criminal ones...

'We wondered why SUV drivers confessed to significantly more
aggressive acts on a daily basis than the rest of the population. For
instance, in comparison to economy- or family car owners, SUV owners
rate themselves higher on aggressiveness, admit to more speeding and
driving through red lights, yelling and swearing more, and feeling
less compassion for other drivers. This pattern of results reveals the
two kinds of drivers on the road today, those who drive "tough" cars
like SUVs, light trucks and sports cars, versus the rest who drive
"soft" cars like economy and family cars and minivans.'

SUV drivers can learn a lesson in humility
By LEON JAMES and DIANE NAHL
Special to Newsday

Today there are two kinds of drivers -- sports utility vehicle owners
and haters. SUV owners love the vehicle, while SUV haters passionately
despise everything associated with SUVs, especially their arrogant and
selfish drivers.

Then came the great tire-recall debacle that shook many SUV owners to
the roots.

SUVs came to our attention while we were researching the
aggressiveness of drivers in general. We wondered why SUV drivers
confessed to significantly more aggressive acts on a daily basis than
the rest of the population. For instance, in comparison to economy- or
family car owners, SUV owners rate themselves higher on
aggressiveness, admit to more speeding and driving through red lights,
yelling and swearing more, and feeling less compassion for other
drivers. This pattern of results reveals the two kinds of drivers on
the road today, those who drive "tough" cars like SUVs, light trucks
and sports cars, versus the rest who drive "soft" cars like economy
and family cars and minivans.

But there are new signs that some of the toughs are in trouble, their
self-confidence shaken by the tire betrayal. Already disturbed by the
rollover threats, SUV owners are showing a newfound caution springing
from prudence and their broken trust in the tires. Suddenly, they feel
vulnerable instead of strong, act carefully instead of aggressively
and are slowing down. This incident makes it clear that SUV drivers
are capable of a less assertive driving style that is safer for
everyone.

If they can hold on to this more accommodating driving style long
after the tire recall, they may be able to rehabilitate their
reputation.

Drivers of other cars regularly complain that they feel threatened by
the size and weight of SUVs towering above them in traffic, bearing
down on them on freeways, weaving to gain the advantage, pushing into
lanes and parking spaces, forcing others to yield, taking up too much
space and blocking visibility, crowding parking lots, straddling
lanes, blasting headlights into rearview mirrors of smaller vehicles
and blinding the driver. SUV drivers are seen as overbearing,
inconsiderate, inattentive, pampered and arrogant. SUVs are also
assailed for gas guzzling and polluting the environment.

While SUV drivers have become the poster children for aggressive
driving, our research shows that the majority of drivers are
aggressive, no matter what they drive. One positive outcome of the
tire scare is that everyone is reminded of how fragile our highway
survival is, and that we all need to tone down, to become more
tolerant, and give each other latitude instead of attitude.

Many SUV drivers do not fit the negative stereotype, but they have to
live with it and try to compensate for their size by keeping greater
distance between vehicles, slowing down, letting others in and using
other accommodating gestures. They can't afford to ignore their
physical impact on others, otherwise SUV haters might act on their
negative fantasies.

One confessed SUV hater wrote: "Commuting on Highway 101, I have a
recurring vision of myself, a 30-year-old woman who tries to avoid
killing ants and spiders, smashing the windshields of random cars or
trucks with a baseball bat. Like TV darling Ally McBeal, who is
haunted by a dancing baby, a symbol of her ticking biological clock, I
am taunted by this bat -- a symbol of my deep-seated anger toward bad
drivers, cell phones and SUVs."

But a vigilante mentality creates a problem for both SUV owners and
the vigilantes because it is unhealthy to hate passionately and to
routinely vent anger.

The new era for SUV drivers was initiated by the Firestone recall
affecting 1 million SUVs and 6.5 million tires. News articles report
that many SUV owners are changing the way they drive. They keep both
hands on the wheel, watch the speedometer and watch out for rising
temperatures that make a tire failure more likely. One driver said, "I
think, oh my God, I'm going to fall to the freeway below. I'm holding
onto the steering wheel where it's digging into my hands." What the
rollover issue couldn't accomplish, the tire scare did.

Who could have imagined that SUV drivers would voluntarily choose to
slow down at a turn that mere economy cars zoom around? People are
scared enough to cancel trips or leave the SUV in the garage and cram
the kids into the subcompact. Another driver still goes 65 to keep up
with the flow but turned off cruise control to avoid a rollover when
she hits the brakes during a tire failure. With a shortage of
replacement tires, people feel trapped because they're driving on
"death tires" that are impossible to replace immediately.

Owners are so committed to these vehicles that they are willing to
separate the tire debacle from the car. Despite hesitations expressed
by some motorists, Ford Explorer sales remain robust. We predict that
the passion SUV owners have will increase rather than decrease under
the latest attack from the tire recall. A well-known phenomenon in
social psychology -- called the "when prophecy fails syndrome" --
predicts that passionate believers strengthen their faith after a
damaging revelation comes to light about a weakness or untruth they
didn't know about. SUV owners will rally behind the vehicles, change
tires and hope against hope that their trust will not be broken again.

The good news is that SUV owners are discovering their softer side and
integrating themselves into the rest of the driving community. A
kinder, gentler SUV driver is aware and cares about the concerns of
all who share the road. The tire crisis provides an opportunity to
repair relationships and calm the fears of other drivers.

http://www.polkonline.com/stories/122900/opi_james-nahl.shtml
DonQuijote1954
2004-07-31 04:33:24 UTC
Permalink
"In his Fury, he drove them from the temple."
My dear friend, not everything in the Bible can be taken literally.
Actually NOTHING can be taken literally. So we can only make wild
guesses of what he drove, if he drove anything, and even--why not--if
he existed or not... ;)
*
You're right -- I agree.
"In his Hummer, he drove them from the temple."
Makes more sense.
earle
*
OK, wait a minute Earle, you are playing mind games with me. Have you
thought of becoming a preacher?

Anyway, if He was driving a Hummer, it must have been the Devil. It
would have been very ungodly to drive a Copulator or a Masturbator,
and crush people around like they were the enemies. Unless they were
witches or pagan or atheists in which case it would have been
justified.

I think it would be better he rode a mule... ;)
DonQuijote1954
2004-07-31 20:03:25 UTC
Permalink
Hey Bader, I've being looking for something about Rene Dumont and I
finally found it. What it says about Africa can be applicable
elsewhere the lion is to be challenged. The loan is only a hook. The
small water well is better than the big water well.

"Rene Dumont, in his latest book, Stranglehold on Africa: argues that
greater self-reliance is the way out of the poverty trap, both
regionally and nationally. -It would be helpful for the countries of
Africa to cut back on their trade with the capitalist countries, so as
to give them fewer opportunities for exploitation. . . this also
applies to the villages since they are exploited twice over - by the
outside world and by their country-s rulers-.

Dumont favours loosening the ties with the -Foreign Exchange Machine-
that dominates Africa-s economy. But this will take a tremendous act
of political will which is unlikely to come solely from above. African
governments - even ones who want change - are too enmeshed in the
structures and schemes of neo-colonialism. Without an impulse from
below to provide a counterweight to the external forces that shape
Africa, a way out of the poverty trap seems unlikely. The poor must
act for themselves. Only a peasant movement has the potential to fit
politics to the real needs of Africa. avoiding the pitfalls of
prestige projects and national pomp. The maize field rather than the
coffee plantation. The water pump instead of the hydro dam."

http://www.newint.org/issue139/keynote.htm
DonQuijote1954
2004-08-01 02:56:51 UTC
Permalink
The didn't die a natural death. They were killed...
By the time GM got interested in selling buses, trolley cars were losing
money heavily. They died a natural death. Are you aware that BUSES could
get premium fares compared to the trolley? You know why? They went into
residential areas and people wanted that. There was no romance to a trolley
car running in front of your house. It lowered your property values big
time.
The truth is buried somewhere in your statement. The buses went
*everywhere*, meaning the suburb, the sprawl that was to come.
Trolleys are good for high-density cities, not for the suburb. But
buses weren't good for it either. They just wanted to push the car and
later the SUV. The sprawl and the car and GM and the oil companies
were a happy communion of interests--where the only loser was the
people and whatever community there was before.

Check this out...

(The following extract explains how this problem with public
transportation came about. Source: book "Fast Food Nation," by Eric
Schlosser.)

The automobile offered drivers a feeling of independence and control.
Daily travel was freed from the hassles of rail schedules, the needs
of other passengers, and the location of trolley stops. More
importantly, driving seemed to cost much less than using public
transport --an illusion created by the fact that the price of a new
car did not include the price of building new roads. Lobbyists from
the oil, tire, and automobile industries, among others, had persuaded
state and federal agencies to assume that fundamental expense. Had the
big auto companies been required to pay for the roads --in the same
way that trolley companies had to lay and maintain track-- the
landscape of the American West would look quite different today.

The automobile industry, however, was not content simply to reap the
benefits of government-subsidized road construction. It was determined
to wipe out railway competition by whatever means necessary. In the
late 1920s, General Motors secretly began to purchase trolley systems
throughout the United States, using a number of front corporations.
Trolley systems in Tulsa, Oklahoma, and Montgomery, Alabama, in Cedar
Rapids, Iowa, and El Paso, Texas, in Baltimore, Chicago, New York
City, and Los Angeles --more than one hundred trolley systems in all--
were purchased by GM and then completly dismantled, their tracks
ripped up, their overhead wires torn down. The trolley companies were
turned into bus lines, and the new buses were manufactured by GM.

General Motors eventually persuaded other companies that benefited
from road building to help pay for the costly takeover of America's
trolleys. In 1947, GM and a number of its allies in the scheme were
indicted on federal antitrust charges. Two years later, the workings
of the conspiracy, and its underlying intentions, were exposed during
a trial in Chicago. GM, Mack Truck, Firestone, and Standard Oil of
California were all found guilty on one of the two counts by the
federal jury. The investigative journalist Jonathan Kwitny later
argued that the case was "a fine example of what can happen when
important matters of public policy are abandoned by government to the
self-interests of corporations." Judge William J. Campbell was not so
outraged. As punishment, the ordered GM and the other companies to pay
a fine of $5,000 each. The executives who had secretly plotted and
carried out the destruction of America's light rail network were fined
$1 each. And the postwar reign of the automobile proceeded without
much further challenge.
DonQuijote1954
2004-08-01 03:13:03 UTC
Permalink
The Acela Express has 10 trains from Washington to Boston Monday
through Friday. Capacity of an Acela Express train is 362
passengers. I-95 runs all day, and 3620 passengers fit into a
fairly small number of SUVs.
Yes, probably about 3000 SUVs to carry those 3620 passengers. The vast
majority of Americans drive one to a car.
The train is also $178 round trip, per person.
The comparison was with unrealistic with always fully loaded trains. As
long as he uses train lies as examples, it is also then fair to use fully
loaded SUVs lies as examples.
Well, if you have a problem with the train fare, there's a simple
solution: TAX GAS TO SUBSIDIZE TRAINS AND PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION. It
makes sense environmentally; it makes sense in comfort and safety; it
makes sense for our congested roads; it makes sense for security
reasons. Doesn't it? ;)

"It is true that you may fool all of the people some of the time; you
can even fool some of the people all of the time; but you can't fool
all of the people all of the time." -A. Lincoln
DonQuijote1954
2004-08-01 12:41:19 UTC
Permalink
Reducing oil consumption will do zero in stopping terrorism. Terrorism has
to be stopped with changing there culture to live with the rest of the world
rather than spewing hatred against everyone that does not want to live the
same way the terrorist want them to live.
So the Muslim culture should be changed, but they shouldn't resist
that, let alone try to change ours... Funny.

Do you expect every Arab family to swap the camel for an SUV? Or
everyone of their kids get a 'happy meal' a day?

Ha-allah-lujah! ;)

PS: You know what, in a world of privatization, I wished the whole
military adventure was privatized and YOU gas-guzzling SUV drivers
were made to pay for it--if not made to fight the war yourself...
Mike
2004-08-01 23:59:53 UTC
Permalink
I just wish they would have stuck with Linux instead of Microsoft offerring
a cheaper deal!
Post by DonQuijote1954
Reducing oil consumption will do zero in stopping terrorism. Terrorism has
to be stopped with changing there culture to live with the rest of the world
rather than spewing hatred against everyone that does not want to live the
same way the terrorist want them to live.
So the Muslim culture should be changed, but they shouldn't resist
that, let alone try to change ours... Funny.
Do you expect every Arab family to swap the camel for an SUV? Or
everyone of their kids get a 'happy meal' a day?
Ha-allah-lujah! ;)
PS: You know what, in a world of privatization, I wished the whole
military adventure was privatized and YOU gas-guzzling SUV drivers
were made to pay for it--if not made to fight the war yourself...
DonQuijote1954
2004-07-31 23:27:54 UTC
Permalink
But they had plenty of tax revenue to subsidize automobile cars.
Most common troll comment in these groups. There should be an attempt
to start a FAQ for this one myth considering how often it reappears.
1. Military
The US military international presence (usually) helps ensure a stable
world where commerce and rights are (generally) protected. A stable
world allows things like oil to sell closer to their market driven
prices, NOT at a subsidized price. Conversely an unstable
international scene causes things like oil to sell for wildly unstable
(plus/minus) prices. To that extent, the international US engagement,
both political and economic, removes price distortions and allows
prices to more accurately track market forces. Pretty much the
opposite of the ICTA claims.
Your problem is that you tie the fact of US involvement with the
speculative conclusion that it must follow that the engagement is in
itself somehow a subsidy.
A troll comment? It looks to me like before you launch the military,
you look for ways to diversify transportation so in effect you SAVE
oil. I mean, that looks to me like the common sense approach not the
gung ho military approach.

Source: World Press Review, letters)

Yes, we need to fight a war, but no, the enemy is not Iraq... The
enemy is oil with 65+ percent of the known oil reserves in the
politically unstable, "Death to America"-chanting Middel East. Imagine
the advances the United States could make to world stability and
developing domestic employment opportunities if it spent the $79+
billion Congress recently approved for Bush's Iraq war on alternative
energy subsidies and investment. Might this be a better way to fight
terrorism, support our troops, and regain world favor?

Jay Lustgarten
San Anselmo, California
2. Lost Property Taxes
Didn't you see the
"PRIVATE PROPERTY NO TRESSPASSING" signs? Seems to me that those
drivers already paid for the road right of ways, now you want to tax
them for the infrastructure they prepaid for with gas taxes.
Regardless, you've seen the property tax impacts for adjacent
properties so you already knew that highyways increase local property
tax revenues but that wasn't convienient for your flipant comment.
While we are at it, yes vehicle owners do indeed frequently pay a
property tax on their autos which are part of the highway mode of
transportation.
Keep your roads. We need more transportation options. Go and check
Curitiba, Brazil, which got one the best system in the world.

A SOLUTION (Curitiba, Brazil)

The urban transportation system is one of Curitiba's best-known
planning
successes, a model for cities around world that want to implement
eco-efficient transportation networks that are well-integrated with
urban form and produce environmental benefits.

The city pioneered the idea of an all-bus transit network with special
bus-only avenues created along well-defined structural axes that were
also used to channel the city's growth. The transit system is rapid
and
cheap, and is currently being integrated with the metropolitan region.

Its efficiency encourages people to leave their cars at home. Curitiba
has one of highest rates of car ownership in Brazil, and high
population
growth. Yet auto traffic has dropped substantially; Curitiba has the
highest public ridership of any Brazilian city (about 2.14 million
passengers a day), and it registers the country's lowest rates of
ambient pollution and per capita gas consumption. In addition, an
inexpensive "social fare" promotes equality, benefiting poorer
residents
settled on the city's periphery. A standard fare is charged for all
trips, meaning shorter rides subsidize longer ones. One fare can take
a
passenger 70 kilometers.
3. suggestions for more?
Nope. Suggestions for b-e-t-t-e-r. ;)

***

'Of course, there are reasons why the American government no longer
helps us make war-related connections, mostly having to do with where
those connections might lead us politically. There's a World War
II-era government poster that reads "Should brave men die so you can
drive?"—a question we might well ask ourselves today. But don't count
on the government to ask it, not in an age where campaign
contributions from oil companies are so important to getting elected.'
DonQuijote1954
2004-07-26 02:38:56 UTC
Permalink
Heck. America is good at building big heavy vehicles powered by massive
engines worthy of a small tugboat. How can the French compete?
Howdy again, Ian
This may not be the right forum to discuss the law of the jungle, but
then again SUVs could be interpreted to the lion--which after all is
only a metaphor--and the little animals, the rest of us. So let's go
on with it... ;)

We can say that the lion really HATES COMPETITION and that even
right-libertarians could represent the good lion--so long as they
accept competition from the cooperative little animals--who otherwise
may be weak. So both the upper quadrants would represent the lion,
while the lower quadrants--left and right libertarians--compete on a
level field, ie. competition between, say, SUVs and bicycles. We can
see this at play--to a certain degree--in Key West. You can drive a
Hummer or a bicycle. The result? Few people are stupid enough to drive
around town and then find no place to park, etc. Other options are
available too as you can ride a motor scooter and even more should be
available: trolleys, a train to the next major city--Miami--instead of
having a long line of behemoths on the one-lane road to the keys.

Someone mentions the "freedom" of an M1 tank be driven in England, and
that...should be defended too!

This is what I mean...

Let's call it "THE COMPASS OF THE POLITICAL JUNGLE"...

-RIGHT-AUTHORITARIAN LION chooses the "law of the jungle" that is not
so; it's simply camouflage to disguise monopoly by the predators. They
HATE COMPETITION. They PROMOTE WARS OVERS RESOURCES. It may be guided
from behind the curtains by the Fox. It's a HUNGRY LION that wants to
sell the water that should be FREE.

-RIGHT-LIBERTARIAN opposes the lion on the grounds that it violates
"true" law of the jungle. They proclaim COMPETITION IS THE ULTIMATE
VIRTUE, and claim that their system will be as stable as that of real
jungle, where species often--but not always--live in coexistence. They
don't talk much how the weak little animals will be able to survive in
the real jungle, but they only have one defense: COOPERATION. Of
course, Right-Libertarian must accept this COMPETITION since not doing
so would make them just another bad lion. They don't hide ANYTHING. If
someone wants to be eaten they do it VOLUNTARILY.

-LEFT-AUTHORITARIAN claims it will organize the little animals to save
them for the jungle. Their solution though resembles THE HERD. The
little animals must accept an AUTHORITARIAN SHEPHERD, which ultimately
leads to DEPENDENCY and INEFFICIENCY.

-LEFT-LIBERTARIAN rejects the HERD, rejects the JUNGLE, but must
accept COMPETITION from the RIGHT-LIBERTARIAN just like they do. They
proclaim that the tool of the weak is COOPERATION, and that that shall
make them STRONG. They must build their OWN WATER WELL.

http://engforum.pravda.ru/showthread.php3?threadid=87995
Dan Koren
2004-07-26 04:35:59 UTC
Permalink
Not only that, but they are cheesy too....



dk
MoPaMaN
2004-07-28 12:05:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan Koren
Not only that, but they are cheesy too....
The french remind me of the early US blacks. Their good for kitchen duty and
cleaning the yard.
--
MoParMaN---Remove Clothes to Reply!!
La Donna Mobile
2004-07-28 12:24:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by MoPaMaN
Post by Dan Koren
Not only that, but they are cheesy too....
The french remind me of the early US blacks. Their good for kitchen duty and
cleaning the yard.
--
MoParMaN---Remove Clothes to Reply!!
Could you please refrain from posting such hate-filled comments to rmo. We
have our own brand of mindless hatred over here and don't need to import
more from other newsgroups.

Thanking you in anticipation
MoPaMaN
2004-07-28 12:31:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by La Donna Mobile
Post by MoPaMaN
Post by Dan Koren
Not only that, but they are cheesy too....
The french remind me of the early US blacks. Their good for kitchen duty
and
Post by MoPaMaN
cleaning the yard.
--
MoParMaN---Remove Clothes to Reply!!
Could you please refrain from posting such hate-filled comments to rmo. We
have our own brand of mindless hatred over here and don't need to import
more from other newsgroups.
Thanking you in anticipation
It's not hate, it's south texas humor dumbass.
--
MoParMaN---Remove Clothes to Reply!!
Tom Deacon
2004-07-28 13:54:43 UTC
Permalink
On 7/28/04 8:31 AM, in article
Post by MoPaMaN
Post by La Donna Mobile
Post by MoPaMaN
Post by Dan Koren
Not only that, but they are cheesy too....
The french remind me of the early US blacks. Their good for kitchen duty
and
Post by MoPaMaN
cleaning the yard.
--
MoParMaN---Remove Clothes to Reply!!
Could you please refrain from posting such hate-filled comments to rmo. We
have our own brand of mindless hatred over here and don't need to import
more from other newsgroups.
Thanking you in anticipation
It's not hate, it's south texas humor dumbass.
Then its dumbass south texas humour.

TD
daniel f. tritter
2004-07-28 14:44:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by MoPaMaN
Post by La Donna Mobile
Post by MoPaMaN
Post by Dan Koren
Not only that, but they are cheesy too....
The french remind me of the early US blacks. Their good for kitchen duty
and
Post by MoPaMaN
cleaning the yard.
--
MoParMaN---Remove Clothes to Reply!!
Could you please refrain from posting such hate-filled comments to rmo. We
have our own brand of mindless hatred over here and don't need to import
more from other newsgroups.
Thanking you in anticipation
It's not hate, it's south texas humor dumbass.
south texas humor dumbass? is that the name on your birth certificate?
the most humorous south texas joke would be if you visited galveston,
waded into the surf, headed south and did not return.
Malev
2004-07-28 15:00:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by daniel f. tritter
Post by MoPaMaN
It's not hate, it's south texas humor dumbass.
south texas humor dumbass? is that the name on your birth certificate?
the most humorous south texas joke would be if you visited galveston,
waded into the surf, headed south and did not return.
Is it one of these places where they speak Mexican?
UniformSierraAlpha
2004-07-28 21:56:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Malev
Post by daniel f. tritter
Post by MoPaMaN
It's not hate, it's south texas humor dumbass.
south texas humor dumbass? is that the name on your birth certificate?
the most humorous south texas joke would be if you visited galveston,
waded into the surf, headed south and did not return.
Is it one of these places where they speak Mexican?
Mexican is a language? You must be a stupid Froggie.
Sacqueboutier
2004-07-28 18:59:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by MoPaMaN
Post by La Donna Mobile
Post by MoPaMaN
Post by Dan Koren
Not only that, but they are cheesy too....
The french remind me of the early US blacks. Their good for kitchen duty
and
Post by MoPaMaN
cleaning the yard.
--
MoParMaN---Remove Clothes to Reply!!
Could you please refrain from posting such hate-filled comments to rmo. We
have our own brand of mindless hatred over here and don't need to import
more from other newsgroups.
Thanking you in anticipation
It's not hate, it's south texas humor dumbass.
No. It's not.

Don
(from south Texas)
Tom Deacon
2004-07-28 21:33:24 UTC
Permalink
On 7/28/04 2:59 PM, in article
Post by Sacqueboutier
Post by MoPaMaN
Post by La Donna Mobile
Post by MoPaMaN
Post by Dan Koren
Not only that, but they are cheesy too....
The french remind me of the early US blacks. Their good for kitchen duty
and
Post by MoPaMaN
cleaning the yard.
--
MoParMaN---Remove Clothes to Reply!!
Could you please refrain from posting such hate-filled comments to rmo. We
have our own brand of mindless hatred over here and don't need to import
more from other newsgroups.
Thanking you in anticipation
It's not hate, it's south texas humor dumbass.
No. It's not.
Don
(from south Texas)
Unsurprisingly.

TD
Sacqueboutier
2004-07-29 01:12:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tom Deacon
On 7/28/04 2:59 PM, in article
Post by Sacqueboutier
Post by MoPaMaN
Post by La Donna Mobile
Post by MoPaMaN
Post by Dan Koren
Not only that, but they are cheesy too....
The french remind me of the early US blacks. Their good for kitchen duty
and
Post by MoPaMaN
cleaning the yard.
--
MoParMaN---Remove Clothes to Reply!!
Could you please refrain from posting such hate-filled comments to rmo. We
have our own brand of mindless hatred over here and don't need to import
more from other newsgroups.
Thanking you in anticipation
It's not hate, it's south texas humor dumbass.
No. It's not.
Don
(from south Texas)
Unsurprisingly.
TD
Yeah, Tom...take the high road as usual.

Don
MoPaMaN
2004-07-28 22:01:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by MoPaMaN
Post by La Donna Mobile
Post by MoPaMaN
Post by Dan Koren
Not only that, but they are cheesy too....
The french remind me of the early US blacks. Their good for kitchen duty
and
Post by MoPaMaN
cleaning the yard.
--
MoParMaN---Remove Clothes to Reply!!
Could you please refrain from posting such hate-filled comments to rmo. We
have our own brand of mindless hatred over here and don't need to import
more from other newsgroups.
Thanking you in anticipation
It's not hate, it's south texas humor dumbass.
The battle of the Alamo was really about Kentuckians trying to stop the
influx of roofers into the southern US. The roofers lost btw, kinda like the
french, the bent and submitted.
--
MoParMaN---Remove Clothes to Reply!!
EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)
2004-07-29 04:08:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by MoPaMaN
It's not hate, it's south texas humor dumbass.
AKA "dumbass humour", one presumes?
daniel f. tritter
2004-07-28 14:20:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by MoPaMaN
Post by Dan Koren
Not only that, but they are cheesy too....
The french remind me of the early US blacks. Their good for kitchen duty and
cleaning the yard.
sorry, little fellow. the stupidity sweepstrakes 2004 entries closed
yesterday closed yesterday. the six-time winner and hall off fame
schmuck charles t. bollman is now chief judge, and the guy that reads
these things to him is on vacation. watch this space for entry
information on 2005, or else simply stay in touch [he'd love that] with
bollman.
Little Jimmy Olsen
2004-07-28 21:12:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by daniel f. tritter
sorry, little fellow. the stupidity sweepstrakes 2004 entries closed
yesterday closed yesterday. >
There seems to be an echo where you are, Dan. Are you loitering again in the
Grand Central master toilet Grand Central master toilet??
dtritter
2004-07-29 05:15:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Little Jimmy Olsen
Post by daniel f. tritter
sorry, little fellow. the stupidity sweepstrakes 2004 entries closed
yesterday closed yesterday. >
There seems to be an echo where you are, Dan. Are you loitering again in the
Grand Central master toilet Grand Central master toilet??
bollman, you seem to have missed a small point or fifty. you are a
mindless, mannerless fool. nobody likes you. nobody expects intelligence
from you. nobody expects decency or manners from you. in short, you are
as easily despised as anyone whose shit soils this ng. it would be
better for you [and your psychiatrist] if you merely left quietly and
went behind some vacant barn to masturbate and commune with your only
friend. you may even want to hum a little ditty like "me and my shadow."
isn't that the one you sang when boy soloist at st. squeedolph's total
immersion in downtown garden city, hoping to be discovered by the
hempstead grand opera? well, there's a lot of sadness in this world. ask
your mommy. she knows that only too well.

now leave us. you smell.
DonQuijote1954
2004-07-29 11:06:18 UTC
Permalink
STUPID TRANSPORTATION vs. SMART TRANSPORTATION

Some just got and grab more oil to keep the gas-guzzling SUVs alive,
others provide CHOICES. What would you rather have?

Hey, Americanus Raptor, would you please move over? ;)

Transportation Alternatives

There are a number of beneficial forms of transportation that make our
lives easier, reduce congestion, reduce our dependence on cars &
foreign oil, are safer & less costly, and help save the planet:

1. TRAINS - Futuristic High-Speed trains like the Eurostar (pictured
above), the French TGV (right), & the Bullet train; Regional trains;
Monorails; Light rail; Trolleys; & Peoplemovers. Clean electric trains
are a major form of daily transportation all across Europe, and are
the single most powerful transportation choice that can solve serious
mobility, environmental, economic, health, and social problems on a
global scale.

2. BICYCLES - A major form of daily transportation in many countries.
Towns and cities have to be made bicycle-friendly to encourage their
wide use.

3. SCOOTERS - Electric and push types are heavily used in urban areas
as daily transportation.

4. ROLLERBLADES - Used in urban areas by many as daily transportation.

5. WALKING - An often forgotten way to get around because so many
places have been made hostle to pedestrians. Still the preferred
choice in dense urban areas.

(see pictures and details of beautiful bullet trains)

http://www.newurbanism.org/pages/416432/index.htm
MoPaMaN
2004-07-28 22:02:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by daniel f. tritter
Post by MoPaMaN
Post by Dan Koren
Not only that, but they are cheesy too....
The french remind me of the early US blacks. Their good for kitchen duty and
cleaning the yard.
sorry, little fellow. the stupidity sweepstrakes 2004 entries closed
yesterday closed yesterday. the six-time winner and hall off fame
schmuck charles t. bollman is now chief judge, and the guy that reads
these things to him is on vacation. watch this space for entry
information on 2005, or else simply stay in touch [he'd love that] with
bollman.
So, what's your point or did you loose it in all the shit you wrote.
--
MoParMaN---Remove Clothes to Reply!!
dtritter
2004-07-29 05:17:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by MoPaMaN
Post by daniel f. tritter
Post by MoPaMaN
Post by Dan Koren
Not only that, but they are cheesy too....
The french remind me of the early US blacks. Their good for kitchen duty
and
Post by daniel f. tritter
Post by MoPaMaN
cleaning the yard.
sorry, little fellow. the stupidity sweepstrakes 2004 entries closed
yesterday closed yesterday. the six-time winner and hall off fame
schmuck charles t. bollman is now chief judge, and the guy that reads
these things to him is on vacation. watch this space for entry
information on 2005, or else simply stay in touch [he'd love that] with
bollman.
So, what's your point or did you loose it in all the shit you wrote.
l=o=s=e ... maybe you ought to petition the entry committee. with your
rare talent for stupidity, maybe they'll make an exception, if it
doesn't make bollman jealous.
Valfer
2004-07-29 22:02:18 UTC
Permalink
The only worse thing than a troll is a troll with an agenda.

Don Quijote, you will find no giants here. Why don't you go elsewhere
looking for them? There are some big ones in Holland, although most
people thing they're windmills.

Valfer
Post by DonQuijote1954
Poll...
(Nonsense deleted)
DonQuijote1954
2004-07-30 17:06:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Valfer
The only worse thing than a troll is a troll with an agenda.
Don Quijote, you will find no giants here. Why don't you go elsewhere
looking for them? There are some big ones in Holland, although most
people thing they're windmills.
The only giant I know in Holland is called "Shell." But it's not so
powerful as people is able to get aroud by bicycle. In America
though...

Don't pay attention to the people. They know of the giants but are
afraid of them... ;)

HOW CERVANTES WAS FOOLED

One day the Lie, which inhabits at the highest and most indredible
places such as the government and the pulpit, decided that such Don
Quixote was a very dangerous enemy because many others could follow
his example... This way in the famous occasion when the noble knight
was about to attack the Bad Giants, the Lie revealed itself to
Cervantes as windmills...

And that's how from then on more than one revolutionary was frustrated
for fear of being called crazy...
a***@comcast.net
2004-07-30 19:46:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by DonQuijote1954
And that's how from then on more than one revolutionary was frustrated
for fear of being called crazy...
Then they were not revolutionaries . . . . at all.
Lev Bronstein's Ghost
Valfer
2004-08-01 20:20:15 UTC
Permalink
Our new troll adds ignorance to his other vices. Anyone who ever read
"El Quijote" would immediately put together windmills and imaginary
giants.

I invite this ersatz Quijote to get on his bicycle and leave this
group in peace.

Valfer
Post by DonQuijote1954
Post by Valfer
The only worse thing than a troll is a troll with an agenda.
Don Quijote, you will find no giants here. Why don't you go elsewhere
looking for them? There are some big ones in Holland, although most
people thing they're windmills.
The only giant I know in Holland is called "Shell." But it's not so
powerful as people is able to get aroud by bicycle. In America
though...
HOW CERVANTES WAS FOOLED
DonQuijote1954
2004-08-02 02:52:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Valfer
Our new troll adds ignorance to his other vices. Anyone who ever read
"El Quijote" would immediately put together windmills and imaginary
giants.
I invite this ersatz Quijote to get on his bicycle and leave this
group in peace.
Hey, you want me to sing the Donna Immobile?

PS: If they are only windmills, what are you worried about?
Valfer
2004-08-02 13:03:13 UTC
Permalink
No, I want you to sing "Ora e per sempre addio."

Valfer
Post by DonQuijote1954
Post by Valfer
Our new troll adds ignorance to his other vices. Anyone who ever read
"El Quijote" would immediately put together windmills and imaginary
giants.
I invite this ersatz Quijote to get on his bicycle and leave this
group in peace.
Hey, you want me to sing the Donna Immobile?
PS: If they are only windmills, what are you worried about?
Continue reading on narkive:
Loading...