Discussion:
Warning To EU by eight members of the British government's House of Lords : ""Turkey, which is a secular country and an important member of NATO, is being pushed by this decision away from Europe and toward Islamic fundamentalism,"
(too old to reply)
rick murphy
2006-12-07 03:09:07 UTC
Permalink
http://www.zaman.com/?bl=hotnews&alt=&trh=20061207&hn=38989

House of Lords Calls Turkey's EU Suspension 'Insult'

By Cihan News Agency
Wednesday, December 06, 2006
zaman.com


An open letter entitled "An insult to Turkey" written by eight members
of the British government's House of Lords was published on Tuesday in
the Daily Telegraph.

The letter issued a warning to the European Union, saying that the
recommendation of partial freeze of Turkey's accession talks is an
insult to the Turkish people. "Turkey, which is a secular country and
an important member of NATO, is being pushed by this decision away from
Europe and toward Islamic fundamentalism," it said in the letter.

Stating that the European Union was wrong, the member of the House of
Lords remarked that it is unacceptable that the Cyprus matter be the
explanation for the suspension.

English parliamentarians also recalled that the bloc did not keep its
words given to Turkish Cyprus and rewarded Greek Cyprus with a
membership.

The lords noted that Turkey could not be forced to recognize Greek
Cyprus and that the only solution would be recognition of a united
Cyprus after Turkish and Greek agreement. In addition, the request for
Turkey to open its harbors and ports to Greek Cypriot traffic was
characterized as "illogical."

The MPs also accentuated that Greek Cyprus was vetoing Turkey's
membership with the aid of France and Austria.
Mhitsos**24
2006-12-07 17:24:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by rick murphy
http://www.zaman.com/?bl=hotnews&alt=&trh=20061207&hn=38989
House of Lords Calls Turkey's EU Suspension 'Insult'
By Cihan News Agency
Wednesday, December 06, 2006
zaman.com
An open letter entitled "An insult to Turkey" written by eight members
of the British government's House of Lords was published on Tuesday in
the Daily Telegraph.
The letter issued a warning to the European Union, saying that the
recommendation of partial freeze of Turkey's accession talks is an
insult to the Turkish people. "Turkey, which is a secular country and
Turkey is far from secular.
Turkey is oppressing Christians living within Turkey.
Post by rick murphy
an important member of NATO,
The soviet Union is no more.
We don't need Turkey anymore
Post by rick murphy
is being pushed by this decision away from
Europe and toward Islamic fundamentalism," it said in the letter.
Turkey has pushed itself from Europe when it mass murdered 1,5 million
Armenians and mass murdered about half million orthodox Christians
In the 50' there were hundred's of thousand Greek Orthodox living in
Constaninople ( Istanbul ).
Now there are only 2000 left.
Turkey has been and is discriminating Christians.
Post by rick murphy
Stating that the European Union was wrong, the member of the House of
Lords remarked that it is unacceptable that the Cyprus matter be the
explanation for the suspension.
Turkey don't recognize all 25 EU member countries.
This is a violation.
Turkey refuses to open to Cyprus, which is a EU member country, it's ports.
Post by rick murphy
English parliamentarians also recalled that the bloc did not keep its
words given to Turkish Cyprus and rewarded Greek Cyprus with a
membership.
There is no " Turkish Cyprus ". Only illegal occupied by the Turkish
army north Cyprus
Post by rick murphy
The lords noted that Turkey could not be forced to recognize Greek
Cyprus and that the only solution would be recognition of a united
Cyprus after Turkish and Greek agreement.
In agreement with the international recognized human rights and within
the frame work of human rights guarantied by the EU.
Which should mean that the Turkish army and the Turkish colonists from
mainland Turkey have to go back to Turkey.
Which would also mean that all the Greeks who had property in the North
of Cyprus can return to their homes.
( Same rights for the Turkish Cypriots who lived in Cyprus prior to the
invasion of 74 )
The Turkish Cypriots would have minority rights like other minorities in
the EU but there would be no " power sharing ".
Lets stop the hypocrisy.
Would Turkey grant it's 12-15 million strong Kurdish minority living in
Turkey the same rights as it demands for the Turkish Cypriots in Cyprus?
The answer is no.
Turkey don't even grants it's Kurdish minority the rights other
minorities enjoy in the EU.

< In addition, the request for
Post by rick murphy
Turkey to open its harbors and ports to Greek Cypriot traffic was
characterized as "illogical."
The MPs also accentuated that Greek Cyprus was vetoing Turkey's
membership with the aid of France and Austria.
Baba Bey
2006-12-07 17:51:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mhitsos**24
Turkey is far from secular.
Turkey is oppressing Christians living within Turkey.
Bullshit.
It is Greece who does not grant the minority Turks in Greece their rights.
Post by Mhitsos**24
Turkey has pushed itself from Europe when it mass murdered 1,5 million
Armenians and mass murdered about half million orthodox Christians
Bullshit. In your imagination maybe.
Post by Mhitsos**24
In the 50' there were hundred's of thousand Greek Orthodox living in
Constaninople ( Istanbul ).
Now there are only 2000 left.
Don't tell bullshit, idiot!
The Greeks have immigrated to Greece since they were greedy
and could earn more money there as Greece is in the EU...
gogu
2006-12-07 17:56:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Baba Bey
Post by Mhitsos**24
Turkey is far from secular.
Turkey is oppressing Christians living within Turkey.
Bullshit.
Always with "civilized" language you fascist Turks;-)
Post by Baba Bey
It is Greece who does not grant the minority Turks in Greece their rights.
FACTS:
in 1922 there were 80.000 Muslim in Greek Thrace and 200.00+ Greeks in
Turkey.
Today, they are 120.000 Muslim in Thrace and *only* 2.000-4.000 Greeks in
Turkey.
Even the Pope spoke about the maltreatment of the minorities in Turkey in
his recent visit..
Truth HURTS.
--
E' mai possibile, oh porco di un cane, che le avventure
in codesto reame debban risolversi tutte con grandi
puttane! F.d.A

Coins, travels and more: http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/golanule/my_photos
http://gogu.enosi.org/index.html
Baba Bey
2006-12-07 18:07:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Baba Bey
It is Greece who does not grant the minority Turks in Greece their rights.
in 1922 there were 80.000 Muslim in Greek Thrace and 200.00+ Greeks in Turkey.
Today, they are 120.000 Muslim in Thrace and *only* 2.000-4.000 Greeks in Turkey.
And I told you this:
The Greeks have immigrated to Greece since they were greedy
and could earn more money there as Greece is in the EU...
Even the Pope spoke about the maltreatment of the minorities in Turkey in
his recent visit..
Can you prove what you say, or are you lying again?
Come on give a link to such a speech of the Po-pe.
Panta Rhei
2006-12-07 18:39:03 UTC
Permalink
Blahblah Bey, the lobotomized Turk, writes:

Before you call anybody again a "liar" again, remember, you Turkish Nazi
pig: you are a PROVEN, SERIAL LIAR!! You primitive pig lie the very moment
you accuse others of being liars! In short, you are a true Turk!


You still have to prove all those lies:


- Prove that those three messages, posted here the other day, are a
"fabricated propaganda message" as you falsely claimed!!!

"How Turks see the pope - II" Message-ID:
<ekfo77$10b9$***@ulysses.noc.ntua.gr>

HONOR KILLINGS again in TURKEY!!!....
Message-ID: <ekfo4i$108k$***@ulysses.noc.ntua.gr>

"Turkish diplomacy caught in French dilemma" Message-ID:
<ekfo49$108c$***@ulysses.noc.ntua.gr>

- Prove that the poster Ali is an Armenian, and not a Kurd!

- Prove that Ali is a "Greco-Armenian PKK propagandist financed by EU funds
Greece and S.Cyprus get from the EU", as you constantly claim!

- Prove that the Turkish newspaper "Hurriyet" is OWNED by Armenians as you
falsely claim, you viciously lying, false, rotten Turkish Nazi swine!!!

- Prove that "someone is killing" my messages!!

- Prove that you "sued" Google!!

- Prove that most Greeks buy their computers in Turkey!

- Prove that the Turkish professor whom you FALSELY quoted, said that "the
religious apes in Turkey (ie. about 20% of the Turks) are unfortunately not
interessted (sic) in any scientific research results re evolution."

- Prove that it is Greece, instead of Turkey, that ranks in wealth below
several African nations as you claimed: "It was shown that it was Greek
which was ranking BELOW several poor african nations!"


Post proof of all your lies, you sick, serial LIAR!!!! You can't!

You are a PROVEN LIAR!!!
gogu
2006-12-07 18:44:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Baba Bey
Post by Baba Bey
It is Greece who does not grant the minority Turks in Greece their rights.
in 1922 there were 80.000 Muslim in Greek Thrace and 200.00+ Greeks in Turkey.
Today, they are 120.000 Muslim in Thrace and *only* 2.000-4.000 Greeks in Turkey.
The Greeks have immigrated to Greece since they were greedy
and could earn more money there as Greece is in the EU...
LOL
"PROVE IT if you can";-)
Seriously now (*if* you can talk seriously...) Greeks left first time
Constantinople after the Turkish Pogrom (under Menderes) of the 6th and 7th
of September 1955, that's common knowledge, Turks have expelled many of
them, others fled in order to save their lives.
Here you can see a picture of "civilized" Turks vandalizing Greek
property...
http://www.pestaola.gr/index.php?tag=constantinople
This is documented even in the Turkish history, so you are simply LYING as
usually;-)
And that was *much before* 1981 when Greece joined the EU!

PWN!
Post by Baba Bey
Even the Pope spoke about the maltreatment of the minorities in Turkey in
his recent visit..
Can you prove what you say, or are you lying again?
LOL LOL LOL LOL
What I said?:-)))))
This is the way a Turkish, slow minded fascist works;-)
He is asking for proof but he never provide when he is asked;-)
And when we are supplying the..."proof" he wants, he is just shutting his
filthy mouth and leaves with his tail under his legs;-)
So here is the proof:
---------------
http://www.flash-bulletin.de/
30 November 2006




AP - "Pope urges religious tolerance in Turkey":


ISTANBUL / 29 November 2006 / by Brian Murphy



Pope Benedict XVI began his pilgrimage among Turkey's tiny Christian
communities Wednesday by paying homage to an Italian priest slain during
Islamic protests and expressing sympathy for the pressures facing religious
minorities in the Muslim world.

The messages - made at one of the holiest Christian sites in Turkey - could
set the tone for the remainder of Benedict's first papal trip to a Muslim
nation as he tries to strengthen bonds with the spiritual leader of the
world's Orthodox Christians.

The pope is expected to sharpen his calls for what the
Vatican calls "reciprocity" - that Muslim demands for greater respect in the
West must be matched by increased tolerance and freedom for Christians in
Islamic nations.

But too much pressure by the Roman Catholic pontiff could risk new friction
with Muslims after broad gestures of goodwill in the opening hours of the
trip Tuesday that sought to ease simmering Muslim anger over the pope's
remarks on violence and the Prophet Muhammad.

A statement claiming to be from al-Qaida in Iraq denounced the pope's visit
as part of a "crusader campaign" against Islam and an attempt to "extinguish
the burning ember of Islam" in Turkey. Vatican spokesman the Rev. Federico
Lombardi said the declaration - posted on several Islamic militant Web
sites - shows the need for faiths to fight "violence in the name of God."

He said "neither the pope nor his entourage are worried."

Still Turkish authorities took massive security precautions for the Istanbul
stop, with thousands of police on the street and roads cleared of all
traffic for the papal motorcade.

The pope's deepening ties with Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew I - called
the "first among equals" of the Orthodox leaders - also is watched with
suspicion in Turkey as a possible challenge to state-imposed limits on
Christian minorities and others. Benedict has declared a "fundamental"
commitment to try to heal rifts between the two ancient branches of
Christianity, which split nearly 1,000 years ago over disputes including
papal authority.

At Bartholemew's walled compound in Istanbul, the pope stood amid
black-robbed Orthodox clerics and urged both sides "to work for full unity
of Catholics and Orthodox."

The pope began the day at the ruins of a small stone home at the end of a
dirt road near the Aegean Sea - the site where the Virgin Mary is thought to
have spent her last years.

At an outdoor Mass attended by 250 invited guests, the pope noted the
challenges facing the "little flock" of Christians in Turkey.

"I have wanted to convey my personal love and spiritual closeness, together
with that of the universal church, to the Christian community here in
Turkey, a small minority which faces many challenges and difficulties
daily," the pope said.

At times, he smiled and showed flashes of the pastoral flair of his
predecessor, John Paul II, in one of the most intimate papal gatherings
since John Paul's trip to remote Mount Sinai during a trip to Egypt in 2000.

Benedict went on to honor the memory of a Catholic priest who was slain in
Turkey amid Muslim anger over the publication in European newspapers of
caricatures of Muhammad.

"Let us sing joyfully, even when we're tested by difficulties and dangers as
we have learned from the fine witness given by the Rev. Andrea Santoro, whom
I am pleased to recall in this celebration," said Benedict, who later walked
amid the crowd as they reached to touch his gold-and-white robes and cried
"Viva il Papa" and "Benedetto," his name in Italian.

In February, a Turkish teenager shot the Italian priest as he knelt in
prayer in his church in the Black Sea port of Trabzon. The attack was
believed to have been linked to outrage over the cartoons. Two other
Catholic priests were attacked this year in Turkey, where Christians have
often complained of discrimination and persecution.

On Tuesday, the pope urged religious leaders of all faiths to "utterly
refuse" to support any form of violence in the name of faith. He also said
religious freedom was an essential element of democratic values.

He sought a careful balance as he held out a hand of friendship and
brotherhood to Muslims, and expressed support for measures that Turkey has
taken in its campaign to join the
European Union.

But winning over Turkish sentiments may be easy compared with the
complexities ahead.

The legacy of Christianity in Turkey is a tangle of historical and religious
sensitivities.

Turkish armies captured the Byzantine capital Constantinople - now
Istanbul - in 1453 to begin a steady decline for Christians, who had
maintained communities in Asia Minor since the time of the Apostles.

As the Ottoman Empire collapsed in the early 20th century, large numbers of
Armenian Christians perished in mass expulsions and fighting. Turkey
vehemently denies that it committed genocide against Armenians, though many
nations have classified the World War I-era killings as such.

Later, in the 1920s, Turkey and Greece carried out a massive population
exchange under the treaty that established modern Turkey, with hundreds of
thousands of Greek Orthodox sent to Greece and smaller numbers of Muslims
going the other way.

Bartholomew heads the remnants of the Greek community in Istanbul that now
number no more than 2,000 among about 90,000 Christians in Turkey.

But they still represent a powerful symbolic presence for the world's more
than 250 million Orthodox, which often denounce Turkey for placing obstacles
in the way of Bartholomew and his clerics.

Turkey refuses to acknowledge the "ecumenical," or universal, title of the
patriarch and instead considers him only the head of the local Greek
Orthodox community. The Turkish worry is that granting wider status to the
patriarch could undermine the idea of a single Turkish nationality - a
pillar of the nation's secular system - and inspire demands for special
recognition by minorities including Kurds and Muslim groups such as Sufis
and Alevis, considered a branch of Shiite Islam.

Now, Turkish officials are concerned the papal visit and support for
Christian minorities could embolden Bartholomew to press Turkey for
concessions, including return of confiscated property and the reopening of a
Greek Orthodox seminary that closed more than two decades ago after
authorities blocked new students. The EU has also pushed Turkey for greater
religious openness to help its faltering bid for membership.

"Against the backdrop of universal peace, the yearning for full communion
and concord between all Christians becomes even more profound and intense,"
he said at the ancient Christian site.

Nestling on a mountain in woods between the ancient city of Ephesus and the
town of Selcuk, near the Aegean coast, St. John the Apostle is believed to
have brought the Virgin Mary to the house to care for her after Jesus'
death. Another belief maintains that the Virgin Mary died in Jerusalem.

The ruins of the house, whose earliest foundations date to the first
century, have become a popular place of pilgrimage for both Muslims and
Christians since the 1950s.

A chapel was built over the ruins, and some believe in the healing powers of
both the chapel and waters flowing from a nearby spring.

Of Turkey's 70 million people, some 65,000 are Armenian Orthodox Christians,
20,000 are Roman Catholic and 3,500 are Protestant, mostly converts from
Islam. Another 23,000 are Jewish.
------------------
Same origin, different newspaper:
-----------
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2006/11/29/europe/EU_GEN_Turkey_Pope.php


Pope offers message of strength to Christian minorities in Turkey

ISTANBUL, Turkey: Pope Benedict XVI began his pilgrimage among Turkey's tiny
Christian communities Wednesday by paying homage to an Italian priest slain
during Islamic protests and expressing sympathy for the pressures facing
religious minorities in the Muslim world.

The messages - made at one of the holiest Christian sites in Turkey - could
set the tone for the remainder of Benedict's first papal trip to a Muslim
nation as he tries to strengthen bonds with the spiritual leader of the
world's Orthodox Christians.

The pope is expected to sharpen his calls for what the Vatican calls
"reciprocity" - that Muslim demands for greater respect in the West must be
matched by increased tolerance and freedoms for Christians in Islamic
nations.

But too much pressure by the pope - who arrived in Istanbul late Wednesday -
could risk new friction with Muslims after broad gestures of goodwill in the
opening hours of the trip Tuesday that sought to ease simmering Muslim anger
over the pope's remarks on violence and the Prophet Muhammad.



A statement claiming to be from al-Qaida in Iraq denounced the pope's visit
as part of a "crusader campaign" against Islam and an attempt to "extinguish
the burning ember of Islam" in Turkey. Vatican spokesman the Rev. Federico
Lombardi said the declaration - posted on several Islamic militant Web
sites - shows the need for faiths to fight "violence in the name of God."

He said "neither the pope nor his entourage are worried."

Still, Turkish authorities took massive security precautions for the
Istanbul stop, with thousands of police on the street and roads cleared of
all traffic for the papal motorcade.

The pope's deepening ties with Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew I - called
the "first among equals" of the Orthodox leaders - is also watched with
suspicion in Turkey as possible challenges to state-imposed limits on
Christian minorities and others. Benedict has declared a "fundamental"
commitment to try to heal rifts between the two ancient branches of
Christianity, which split nearly 1,000 years ago over disputes including
papal authority.

At Bartholemew's walled compound in Istanbul, the pope stood amid
black-robbed Orthodox clerics and urged "to work for full unity of Catholics
and Orthodox."

The pope began the day at the ruins of a small stone home at the end of a
dirt road near the Aegean Sea coast - the site where the Virgin Mary is
thought to have spent her last years.

At an outdoor Mass attended by only 250 invited guests, the pope noted the
challenges facing the "little flock" of Christians in Turkey.

"I have wanted to convey my personal love and spiritual closeness, together
with that of the universal church, to the Christian community here in
Turkey, a small minority which faces many challenges and difficulties
daily," the pope said.

At times, he smiled and showed flashes of the pastoral flair of his
predecessor, John Paul II, in one of the most intimate papal gatherings
since John Paul's trip to remote Mount Sinai during a trip to Egypt in 2000.

Benedict went on to honor the memory of a Catholic priest who was slain in
Turkey amid Muslim anger over the publication in European newspapers of
caricatures of Muhammad.

"Let us sing joyfully, even when we're tested by difficulties and dangers as
we have learned from the fine witness given by the Rev. Andrea Santoro, whom
I am pleased to recall in this celebration," said Benedict, who later walked
amid the crowd as they reached to touch his gold-and-white robes and cried
"Viva il Papa" and "Benedetto," his name in Italian.

In February, a Turkish teenager shot the Italian priest as he knelt in
prayer in his church in the Black Sea port of Trabzon. The attack was
believed to have been linked to outrage over the cartoons.

On Tuesday, the pope urged religious leaders of all faiths to "utterly
refuse" to support any form of violence in the name of faith. He also said
religious freedom was an essential element of democratic values.

Winning over Turkish sentiments may be easy compared with the complexities
ahead.

The legacy of Christianity in Turkey is a tangle of historical and religious
sensitivities.

Turkish armies captured the Byzantine capital Constantinople - now
Istanbul - in 1453 to begin a steady decline for Christians, who had
maintained communities in Asia Minor since the time of the Apostles.

--------------

http://www.speroforum.com/site/article.asp?idCategory=33&idsub=128&id=5749



Pope in Turkey to have bearing on ecumenism, Islam


The Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew I believes the pope's
visit may prompt the Turkish government to respect the rights of minorities,
different ethnic groups and religions





Friday, September 29, 2006

by Asia News




This is "such an important visit and we anticipate it with
great brotherly love". In the "Throne Room" of Fanar, the seat of the
Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople, Patriarch Bartholomew I said the
visit of Benedict XVI to Turkey would naturally have a "bearing" on ties
between Catholics and Orthodox - a joint statement is expected - and on ties
between Catholics and Muslims. But it could also have an impact on religious
freedom and on the recognition of minority rights in Turkey. The state
ignores these, despite international commitments and continued pressure from
Europe, up to yesterday's resolution in which the European Parliament urged
that the patriarchate and minorities be given their rights.
The patriarch met a group of journalists of different
nationalities straight after the conclusion of a Synodal meeting dedicated
to the resumption, in Belgrade, of deliberations of the Mixed
Catholic-Orthodox Commission, which had been stalled for six years and are
now at a "crucial point".

He said: "It will be an important visit for Turkey and for
ties and dialogue between religions. In general, the pope is expected with
joy and openness here: the Turks are hospitable and cordial with foreigners.
Paul VI and John Paul II have already come here without problems: if now
there are any because of the address at Regensburg, this is an occasion for
dialogue, to do away with misunderstanding. It is significant and important
that, despite reactions to that speech, neither the Turkish government nor
the pope wanted to postpone the visit."

"We followed his visit in Germany and the echoes of his
conference in Regensburg. These things are well known and none of us want in
any way to have tension among the monotheistic religions. The patriarchate
has worked for years to improve ties and we will continue to do so towards
an ideal of friendship and collaboration and for the good of mankind and the
establishment of lasting peace on earth. I am sure the pope did not intend
to offend our Muslim brothers. After all, Benedict XVI himself stressed this
last Monday when he received envoys of Islamic countries accredited to the
Vatican. We must respect each other's convictions, we must collaborate,
recalling that on this planet, there is place for all and there is no need
to cultivate confrontation and rancour. We do not want to offend the
prophet, just as we do not want Christ to be insulted."

During his stay in Turkey, Benedict XVI will have three
meetings with Bartholomew: Vespers in the small cathedral of the
patriarchate dedicated to St George, "Divine Liturgy" that will be
celebrated in the same church and mass that will be held by the pope for
Catholics.

So they will be meeting three times, emphasizing this
important moment in time for ecumenical dialogue. "After nearly six years,
we have been able to start again in Belgrade," said Bartholomew. "I cannot
predict now what may happen in years to come, but I am convinced it will
depend on the goodwill, Christian courage and sincerity of both sides. With
John Paul II, we made great progress, and Benedict XVI has already shown
affection for Orthodoxy."

Metropolitan Ioannis of Pergamo, co-chairman of the
Orthodox part of the Mixed Commission of dialogue with Catholics, was also
present at the meeting between journalists and the patriarch. He said: "We
have the theological and ecclesiological agenda in hand, especially the
question of the primacy of Peter. No one denies that in the united Church,
the bishop of Rome was the first, but there is the need to understand each
other, there is no homogeneity even within the two Churches. Catholics and
Orthodox must ask themselves what they can concede on the primacy. And this
is what we are discussing. We are at a crucial point."

"Each of the two," intervened Bartholomew, "must make
efforts to conserve their own traditions while at the same time seeking
rapprochement".

For the Orthodox, the list of grievances due to a lack of
respect for minorities is a long one, starting from the Treaty of Losanna
signed by Turkey in 1923 and later ignored. Europe is now exerting pressure
about this. "The patriarchate has always been in favour of the European path
taken by our country, right from the start. I cannot hide, however, the
existence of problems regarding minorities. For example, according to the
Losanna Treaty, minorities have the right to open schools for religious
education. We had one, a school on the island of Chalki. It flourished
during the Ottoman Empire and Turkish Republic until 1971, when there was a
decision to close it. Thus, the first among the Orthodox patriarchates does
not have the right to form its youth. It is unacceptable."

As if this was not enough, "there is also an economic
problem. We have been here for 17 centuries and our juridical personality
has not been recognized. We have lost several assets. And even with regard
to the school, we founded it in 1844. We have title deeds to prove it but
ownership has not been guaranteed us. The same applies to an orphanage that
was established on the island of Buiukata: we have an Ottoman title deed of
ownership and another dating to the start of the Republic, but they took it
from us. Now we have turned to the European Court."

There is a religious aspect too: the Ecumenical Patriarch,
by law, must be a Turkish citizen. But there are only a few Orthodox Turks
so options are restricted. "We have asked to be able to choose an Orthodox
of any citizenship, upon whom the government may then confer citizenship, as
happens in Egypt with the patriarch of Alexandria. But nothing has happened
so far. We joyfully anticipate the upcoming visit of the German chancellor,
Angela Merkel, on 5 and 6 October. There has been talk of some sort of
protection for us, but it is not so. It is just that Germany is a great
secular democracy that respects minorities. And there are expansive, good
ties between Germany and Turkey and Mrs Merkel will meet me too." The
patriarch's words before he took his leave were: "We expect respect of our
rights from our authorities to be able to continue carrying out our mission
in the service of humanity. In 1923, there were 280,000 Orthodox in Turkey,
now there are just over 2,000. Why?"

Article written by Franco Pisano

------------------------

http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/2006-11-30-pope-turkey_x.htm?csp=34



Pope prays with cleric at mosque in Turkey


Updated 11/30/2006 1:19 PM ET







ISTANBUL, Turkey (AP) - Pope Benedict XVI prayed
alongside an Islamic cleric in one of Turkey's most famous mosques Thursday
in a dramatic gesture of outreach to Muslims after outrage from the
pontiff's remarks linking violence and the teachings of the Prophet
Muhammad.
The pope bowed his head and closed his eyes for
nearly a minute inside the 17th century Blue Mosque after Mustafa Cagrici,
the head cleric of Istanbul, said: "Now I'm going to pray."

As the pope left the mosque, Benedict turned to
Cagrici and thanked him "for this moment of prayer," the Italian news agency
ANSA reported.



"This visit will help us find together the way of
peace for the good of all humanity," the pope said during only the second
papal visit to a Muslim place of worship. Benedict's predecessor, John Paul
II, visited a mosque in Syria in 2001.

The mosque visit was added to Benedict's schedule as
a "sign of respect" during his first papal trip to a Muslim nation, the Rev.
Federico Lombardi, the Vatican spokesman, said last week.

The pope removed his shoes before entering the
carpeted expanse of the mosque, which is officially known as the Sultan
Ahmet Mosque after the Ottoman sultan Ahmet I, who ordered its construction.
But it's widely called the Blue Mosque after its elaborate blue tiles.

The pope received a gift of a glazed tile decorated
with a dove and a painting showing a view of the Sea of Marmara off
Istanbul. The pope gave the imam a mosaic showing four doves.

"Let us pray for brotherhood and for all humanity,"
the pope said in Italian.

Lombardi said the pope "paused in meditation" inside
the mosque and "certainly his thoughts turned to God."

The pope has offered wide-ranging messages of
reconciliation to Muslims since arriving in Turkey on Tuesday, including
appeals for greater understanding and support for Turkey's steps to become
the first Muslim nation in the European Union.

But Benedict also has set down his own demands.

After a deeply symbolic display of unity with
Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew I, the spiritual leader of the world's
Christian Orthodox, the pope again repeated his calls for greater freedoms
for religious minorities and described the divisions among Christians -
including the nearly 1,000-year rift between Catholics and Orthodox - as a
"scandal to the world."

Benedict has made outreach to the world's more than
250 million Orthodox a centerpiece of his young papacy and has set the
difficult goal of full unity between the two ancient branches of
Christianity.



----------------------



Now note in the last article:

"...the pope again repeated his calls for greater freedoms for
religious minorities...."
Post by Baba Bey
Come on give a link to such a speech of the Po-pe.
See above you LYING, low educated, infantile Turk;-)

PWN!
PWN!
PWN!
--
E' mai possibile, oh porco di un cane, che le avventure
in codesto reame debban risolversi tutte con grandi
puttane! F.d.A

Coins, travels and more: http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/golanule/my_photos
http://gogu.enosi.org/index.html


begin 666 dot_h.gif
K1TE&.#EA`P`!`( !`&9F9O___R'Y! $```$`+ `````#``$```("1%(`.P``
`
end

begin 666 space.gif
M1TE&.#EA`0`!`)$``````/_______P```"'Y! 44``(`+ `````!``$```("
$5 $`.P``
`
end
Baba Bey
2006-12-07 20:02:55 UTC
Permalink
"Baba Bey"
Post by Baba Bey
Post by gogu
Even the Pope spoke about the maltreatment of the minorities in Turkey in
his recent visit..
Can you prove what you say, or are you lying again?
Come on give a link to such a speech of the Po-pe.
<much unrelated propaganda bullshit snipped>
See above you LYING, low educated, infantile Turk;-)
WHERE?
I don't see the speech of the Po-pe where he adresses this.
You are posting just the usual propaganda crap from Greek trash sources!
What exactly did the Po-pe say? Can't you give just this with a link to the original?
Why are you spamming the thread with other totally unrelated crap?
We are tired of your propaganda lies!
Just prove exactly what you say, you lying Greek idiots!
Panta Rhei
2006-12-07 20:24:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Baba Bey
"Baba Bey"
Post by Baba Bey
Post by gogu
Even the Pope spoke about the maltreatment of the minorities in Turkey in
his recent visit..
Can you prove what you say, or are you lying again?
Come on give a link to such a speech of the Po-pe.
<much unrelated propaganda bullshit snipped>
See above you LYING, low educated, infantile Turk;-)
WHERE?
I don't see the speech of the Po-pe where he adresses this.
You are posting just the usual propaganda crap from Greek trash sources!
What exactly did the Po-pe say? Can't you give just this with a link to the original?
Why are you spamming the thread with other totally unrelated crap?
We are tired of your propaganda lies!
Just prove exactly what you say, you lying Greek idiots!
LOL!!!! What a unique asshole, this Turk!!!

Listen, stupid! We can't here explain everything to a subnormal idiot like
you, every time you don't understand something with your limited Turkish
mind, you backward creep! <G>
gogu
2006-12-07 21:13:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Baba Bey
"Baba Bey"
Post by Baba Bey
Post by gogu
Even the Pope spoke about the maltreatment of the minorities in Turkey in
his recent visit..
Can you prove what you say, or are you lying again?
Come on give a link to such a speech of the Po-pe.
<much unrelated propaganda bullshit snipped>
See above you LYING, low educated, infantile Turk;-)
WHERE?
I don't see the speech of the Po-pe where he adresses this.
You are posting just the usual propaganda crap from Greek trash sources!
LOL
I didn't know that...Associated Press is..."Greek trash source"!;-))))))))))
I didn't know that...International Herald Tribune is..."Greek trash
source"!;-))))))))))
I didn't know that...Spero News (source by Asian News) is..."Greek trash
source"!;-))))))))))
I didn't know that...USAToday is..."Greek trash source"!;-))))))))))

What can I say, you fascist Turks are in total denial and the whole world is
laughing at you;-)
It's OK by me;-)
Post by Baba Bey
What exactly did the Po-pe say?
Read the newspaper news I provided!
-------------------
"...the pope again repeated his calls for greater freedoms for
religious minorities...."
-------------------
What else do you want?!
Maybe Pope's recorded voice?!;-)
Post by Baba Bey
Can't you give just this with a link to the original?
I gave you many links to the newspapers who has reported it!
What do you want more?!
Maybe Pope's recorded voice?!;-)
Post by Baba Bey
Why are you spamming the thread with other totally unrelated crap?
LOL
Look who's talking;-)
The arch-spammer and the Usenet TROLL and laughing stock;-)
I see that you are furious when you are PROVED to be on the wrong;-)
Post by Baba Bey
We are tired of your propaganda lies!
LOL
Are you talking again to your mirror?;-)
Post by Baba Bey
Just prove exactly what you say, you lying Greek idiots!
That (in)famous Turkish gallantry and "civilization" is becoming more and
more known around the world;-)

Here:

---------------
http://www.flash-bulletin.de/
30 November 2006



AP - "Pope urges religious tolerance in Turkey":


ISTANBUL / 29 November 2006 / by Brian Murphy


Pope Benedict XVI began his pilgrimage among Turkey's tiny Christian
communities Wednesday by paying homage to an Italian priest slain during
Islamic protests and expressing sympathy for the pressures facing religious
minorities in the Muslim world.

The messages - made at one of the holiest Christian sites in Turkey - could
set the tone for the remainder of Benedict's first papal trip to a Muslim
nation as he tries to strengthen bonds with the spiritual leader of the
world's Orthodox Christians.

The pope is expected to sharpen his calls for what the
Vatican calls "reciprocity" - that Muslim demands for greater respect in the
West must be matched by increased tolerance and freedom for Christians in
Islamic nations.

But too much pressure by the Roman Catholic pontiff could risk new friction
with Muslims after broad gestures of goodwill in the opening hours of the
trip Tuesday that sought to ease simmering Muslim anger over the pope's
remarks on violence and the Prophet Muhammad.

A statement claiming to be from al-Qaida in Iraq denounced the pope's visit
as part of a "crusader campaign" against Islam and an attempt to "extinguish
the burning ember of Islam" in Turkey. Vatican spokesman the Rev. Federico
Lombardi said the declaration - posted on several Islamic militant Web
sites - shows the need for faiths to fight "violence in the name of God."

He said "neither the pope nor his entourage are worried."

Still Turkish authorities took massive security precautions for the Istanbul
stop, with thousands of police on the street and roads cleared of all
traffic for the papal motorcade.

The pope's deepening ties with Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew I - called
the "first among equals" of the Orthodox leaders - also is watched with
suspicion in Turkey as a possible challenge to state-imposed limits on
Christian minorities and others. Benedict has declared a "fundamental"
commitment to try to heal rifts between the two ancient branches of
Christianity, which split nearly 1,000 years ago over disputes including
papal authority.

At Bartholemew's walled compound in Istanbul, the pope stood amid
black-robbed Orthodox clerics and urged both sides "to work for full unity
of Catholics and Orthodox."

The pope began the day at the ruins of a small stone home at the end of a
dirt road near the Aegean Sea - the site where the Virgin Mary is thought to
have spent her last years.

At an outdoor Mass attended by 250 invited guests, the pope noted the
challenges facing the "little flock" of Christians in Turkey.

"I have wanted to convey my personal love and spiritual closeness, together
with that of the universal church, to the Christian community here in
Turkey, a small minority which faces many challenges and difficulties
daily," the pope said.

At times, he smiled and showed flashes of the pastoral flair of his
predecessor, John Paul II, in one of the most intimate papal gatherings
since John Paul's trip to remote Mount Sinai during a trip to Egypt in 2000.

Benedict went on to honor the memory of a Catholic priest who was slain in
Turkey amid Muslim anger over the publication in European newspapers of
caricatures of Muhammad.

"Let us sing joyfully, even when we're tested by difficulties and dangers as
we have learned from the fine witness given by the Rev. Andrea Santoro, whom
I am pleased to recall in this celebration," said Benedict, who later walked
amid the crowd as they reached to touch his gold-and-white robes and cried
"Viva il Papa" and "Benedetto," his name in Italian.

In February, a Turkish teenager shot the Italian priest as he knelt in
prayer in his church in the Black Sea port of Trabzon. The attack was
believed to have been linked to outrage over the cartoons. Two other
Catholic priests were attacked this year in Turkey, where Christians have
often complained of discrimination and persecution.

On Tuesday, the pope urged religious leaders of all faiths to "utterly
refuse" to support any form of violence in the name of faith. He also said
religious freedom was an essential element of democratic values.

He sought a careful balance as he held out a hand of friendship and
brotherhood to Muslims, and expressed support for measures that Turkey has
taken in its campaign to join the
European Union.

But winning over Turkish sentiments may be easy compared with the
complexities ahead.

The legacy of Christianity in Turkey is a tangle of historical and religious
sensitivities.

Turkish armies captured the Byzantine capital Constantinople - now
Istanbul - in 1453 to begin a steady decline for Christians, who had
maintained communities in Asia Minor since the time of the Apostles.

As the Ottoman Empire collapsed in the early 20th century, large numbers of
Armenian Christians perished in mass expulsions and fighting. Turkey
vehemently denies that it committed genocide against Armenians, though many
nations have classified the World War I-era killings as such.

Later, in the 1920s, Turkey and Greece carried out a massive population
exchange under the treaty that established modern Turkey, with hundreds of
thousands of Greek Orthodox sent to Greece and smaller numbers of Muslims
going the other way.

Bartholomew heads the remnants of the Greek community in Istanbul that now
number no more than 2,000 among about 90,000 Christians in Turkey.

But they still represent a powerful symbolic presence for the world's more
than 250 million Orthodox, which often denounce Turkey for placing obstacles
in the way of Bartholomew and his clerics.

Turkey refuses to acknowledge the "ecumenical," or universal, title of the
patriarch and instead considers him only the head of the local Greek
Orthodox community. The Turkish worry is that granting wider status to the
patriarch could undermine the idea of a single Turkish nationality - a
pillar of the nation's secular system - and inspire demands for special
recognition by minorities including Kurds and Muslim groups such as Sufis
and Alevis, considered a branch of Shiite Islam.

Now, Turkish officials are concerned the papal visit and support for
Christian minorities could embolden Bartholomew to press Turkey for
concessions, including return of confiscated property and the reopening of a
Greek Orthodox seminary that closed more than two decades ago after
authorities blocked new students. The EU has also pushed Turkey for greater
religious openness to help its faltering bid for membership.

"Against the backdrop of universal peace, the yearning for full communion
and concord between all Christians becomes even more profound and intense,"
he said at the ancient Christian site.

Nestling on a mountain in woods between the ancient city of Ephesus and the
town of Selcuk, near the Aegean coast, St. John the Apostle is believed to
have brought the Virgin Mary to the house to care for her after Jesus'
death. Another belief maintains that the Virgin Mary died in Jerusalem.

The ruins of the house, whose earliest foundations date to the first
century, have become a popular place of pilgrimage for both Muslims and
Christians since the 1950s.

A chapel was built over the ruins, and some believe in the healing powers of
both the chapel and waters flowing from a nearby spring.

Of Turkey's 70 million people, some 65,000 are Armenian Orthodox Christians,
20,000 are Roman Catholic and 3,500 are Protestant, mostly converts from
Islam. Another 23,000 are Jewish.
------------------


Same origin, different newspaper:


-----------
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2006/11/29/europe/EU_GEN_Turkey_Pope.php


Pope offers message of strength to Christian minorities in Turkey

ISTANBUL, Turkey: Pope Benedict XVI began his pilgrimage among Turkey's tiny
Christian communities Wednesday by paying homage to an Italian priest slain
during Islamic protests and expressing sympathy for the pressures facing
religious minorities in the Muslim world.

The messages - made at one of the holiest Christian sites in Turkey - could
set the tone for the remainder of Benedict's first papal trip to a Muslim
nation as he tries to strengthen bonds with the spiritual leader of the
world's Orthodox Christians.

The pope is expected to sharpen his calls for what the Vatican calls
"reciprocity" - that Muslim demands for greater respect in the West must be
matched by increased tolerance and freedoms for Christians in Islamic
nations.

But too much pressure by the pope - who arrived in Istanbul late Wednesday -
could risk new friction with Muslims after broad gestures of goodwill in the
opening hours of the trip Tuesday that sought to ease simmering Muslim anger
over the pope's remarks on violence and the Prophet Muhammad.



A statement claiming to be from al-Qaida in Iraq denounced the pope's visit
as part of a "crusader campaign" against Islam and an attempt to "extinguish
the burning ember of Islam" in Turkey. Vatican spokesman the Rev. Federico
Lombardi said the declaration - posted on several Islamic militant Web
sites - shows the need for faiths to fight "violence in the name of God."

He said "neither the pope nor his entourage are worried."

Still, Turkish authorities took massive security precautions for the
Istanbul stop, with thousands of police on the street and roads cleared of
all traffic for the papal motorcade.

The pope's deepening ties with Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew I - called
the "first among equals" of the Orthodox leaders - is also watched with
suspicion in Turkey as possible challenges to state-imposed limits on
Christian minorities and others. Benedict has declared a "fundamental"
commitment to try to heal rifts between the two ancient branches of
Christianity, which split nearly 1,000 years ago over disputes including
papal authority.

At Bartholemew's walled compound in Istanbul, the pope stood amid
black-robbed Orthodox clerics and urged "to work for full unity of Catholics
and Orthodox."

The pope began the day at the ruins of a small stone home at the end of a
dirt road near the Aegean Sea coast - the site where the Virgin Mary is
thought to have spent her last years.

At an outdoor Mass attended by only 250 invited guests, the pope noted the
challenges facing the "little flock" of Christians in Turkey.

"I have wanted to convey my personal love and spiritual closeness, together
with that of the universal church, to the Christian community here in
Turkey, a small minority which faces many challenges and difficulties
daily," the pope said.

At times, he smiled and showed flashes of the pastoral flair of his
predecessor, John Paul II, in one of the most intimate papal gatherings
since John Paul's trip to remote Mount Sinai during a trip to Egypt in 2000.

Benedict went on to honor the memory of a Catholic priest who was slain in
Turkey amid Muslim anger over the publication in European newspapers of
caricatures of Muhammad.

"Let us sing joyfully, even when we're tested by difficulties and dangers as
we have learned from the fine witness given by the Rev. Andrea Santoro, whom
I am pleased to recall in this celebration," said Benedict, who later walked
amid the crowd as they reached to touch his gold-and-white robes and cried
"Viva il Papa" and "Benedetto," his name in Italian.

In February, a Turkish teenager shot the Italian priest as he knelt in
prayer in his church in the Black Sea port of Trabzon. The attack was
believed to have been linked to outrage over the cartoons.

On Tuesday, the pope urged religious leaders of all faiths to "utterly
refuse" to support any form of violence in the name of faith. He also said
religious freedom was an essential element of democratic values.

Winning over Turkish sentiments may be easy compared with the complexities
ahead.

The legacy of Christianity in Turkey is a tangle of historical and religious
sensitivities.

Turkish armies captured the Byzantine capital Constantinople - now
Istanbul - in 1453 to begin a steady decline for Christians, who had
maintained communities in Asia Minor since the time of the Apostles.

--------------

http://www.speroforum.com/site/article.asp?idCategory=33&idsub=128&id=5749



Pope in Turkey to have bearing on ecumenism, Islam


The Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew I believes the pope's
visit may prompt the Turkish government to respect the rights of minorities,
different ethnic groups and religions



Friday, September 29, 2006

by Asia News



This is "such an important visit and we anticipate it with
great brotherly love". In the "Throne Room" of Fanar, the seat of the
Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople, Patriarch Bartholomew I said the
visit of Benedict XVI to Turkey would naturally have a "bearing" on ties
between Catholics and Orthodox - a joint statement is expected - and on ties
between Catholics and Muslims. But it could also have an impact on religious
freedom and on the recognition of minority rights in Turkey. The state
ignores these, despite international commitments and continued pressure from
Europe, up to yesterday's resolution in which the European Parliament urged
that the patriarchate and minorities be given their rights.
The patriarch met a group of journalists of different
nationalities straight after the conclusion of a Synodal meeting dedicated
to the resumption, in Belgrade, of deliberations of the Mixed
Catholic-Orthodox Commission, which had been stalled for six years and are
now at a "crucial point".

He said: "It will be an important visit for Turkey and for
ties and dialogue between religions. In general, the pope is expected with
joy and openness here: the Turks are hospitable and cordial with foreigners.
Paul VI and John Paul II have already come here without problems: if now
there are any because of the address at Regensburg, this is an occasion for
dialogue, to do away with misunderstanding. It is significant and important
that, despite reactions to that speech, neither the Turkish government nor
the pope wanted to postpone the visit."

"We followed his visit in Germany and the echoes of his
conference in Regensburg. These things are well known and none of us want in
any way to have tension among the monotheistic religions. The patriarchate
has worked for years to improve ties and we will continue to do so towards
an ideal of friendship and collaboration and for the good of mankind and the
establishment of lasting peace on earth. I am sure the pope did not intend
to offend our Muslim brothers. After all, Benedict XVI himself stressed this
last Monday when he received envoys of Islamic countries accredited to the
Vatican. We must respect each other's convictions, we must collaborate,
recalling that on this planet, there is place for all and there is no need
to cultivate confrontation and rancour. We do not want to offend the
prophet, just as we do not want Christ to be insulted."

During his stay in Turkey, Benedict XVI will have three
meetings with Bartholomew: Vespers in the small cathedral of the
patriarchate dedicated to St George, "Divine Liturgy" that will be
celebrated in the same church and mass that will be held by the pope for
Catholics.

So they will be meeting three times, emphasizing this
important moment in time for ecumenical dialogue. "After nearly six years,
we have been able to start again in Belgrade," said Bartholomew. "I cannot
predict now what may happen in years to come, but I am convinced it will
depend on the goodwill, Christian courage and sincerity of both sides. With
John Paul II, we made great progress, and Benedict XVI has already shown
affection for Orthodoxy."

Metropolitan Ioannis of Pergamo, co-chairman of the
Orthodox part of the Mixed Commission of dialogue with Catholics, was also
present at the meeting between journalists and the patriarch. He said: "We
have the theological and ecclesiological agenda in hand, especially the
question of the primacy of Peter. No one denies that in the united Church,
the bishop of Rome was the first, but there is the need to understand each
other, there is no homogeneity even within the two Churches. Catholics and
Orthodox must ask themselves what they can concede on the primacy. And this
is what we are discussing. We are at a crucial point."

"Each of the two," intervened Bartholomew, "must make
efforts to conserve their own traditions while at the same time seeking
rapprochement".

For the Orthodox, the list of grievances due to a lack of
respect for minorities is a long one, starting from the Treaty of Losanna
signed by Turkey in 1923 and later ignored. Europe is now exerting pressure
about this. "The patriarchate has always been in favour of the European path
taken by our country, right from the start. I cannot hide, however, the
existence of problems regarding minorities. For example, according to the
Losanna Treaty, minorities have the right to open schools for religious
education. We had one, a school on the island of Chalki. It flourished
during the Ottoman Empire and Turkish Republic until 1971, when there was a
decision to close it. Thus, the first among the Orthodox patriarchates does
not have the right to form its youth. It is unacceptable."

As if this was not enough, "there is also an economic
problem. We have been here for 17 centuries and our juridical personality
has not been recognized. We have lost several assets. And even with regard
to the school, we founded it in 1844. We have title deeds to prove it but
ownership has not been guaranteed us. The same applies to an orphanage that
was established on the island of Buiukata: we have an Ottoman title deed of
ownership and another dating to the start of the Republic, but they took it
from us. Now we have turned to the European Court."

There is a religious aspect too: the Ecumenical Patriarch,
by law, must be a Turkish citizen. But there are only a few Orthodox Turks
so options are restricted. "We have asked to be able to choose an Orthodox
of any citizenship, upon whom the government may then confer citizenship, as
happens in Egypt with the patriarch of Alexandria. But nothing has happened
so far. We joyfully anticipate the upcoming visit of the German chancellor,
Angela Merkel, on 5 and 6 October. There has been talk of some sort of
protection for us, but it is not so. It is just that Germany is a great
secular democracy that respects minorities. And there are expansive, good
ties between Germany and Turkey and Mrs Merkel will meet me too." The
patriarch's words before he took his leave were: "We expect respect of our
rights from our authorities to be able to continue carrying out our mission
in the service of humanity. In 1923, there were 280,000 Orthodox in Turkey,
now there are just over 2,000. Why?"

Article written by Franco Pisano

------------------------

http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/2006-11-30-pope-turkey_x.htm?csp=34



Pope prays with cleric at mosque in Turkey


Updated 11/30/2006 1:19 PM ET




ISTANBUL, Turkey (AP) - Pope Benedict XVI prayed
alongside an Islamic cleric in one of Turkey's most famous mosques Thursday
in a dramatic gesture of outreach to Muslims after outrage from the
pontiff's remarks linking violence and the teachings of the Prophet
Muhammad.
The pope bowed his head and closed his eyes for
nearly a minute inside the 17th century Blue Mosque after Mustafa Cagrici,
the head cleric of Istanbul, said: "Now I'm going to pray."

As the pope left the mosque, Benedict turned to
Cagrici and thanked him "for this moment of prayer," the Italian news agency
ANSA reported.



"This visit will help us find together the way of
peace for the good of all humanity," the pope said during only the second
papal visit to a Muslim place of worship. Benedict's predecessor, John Paul
II, visited a mosque in Syria in 2001.

The mosque visit was added to Benedict's schedule as
a "sign of respect" during his first papal trip to a Muslim nation, the Rev.
Federico Lombardi, the Vatican spokesman, said last week.

The pope removed his shoes before entering the
carpeted expanse of the mosque, which is officially known as the Sultan
Ahmet Mosque after the Ottoman sultan Ahmet I, who ordered its construction.
But it's widely called the Blue Mosque after its elaborate blue tiles.

The pope received a gift of a glazed tile decorated
with a dove and a painting showing a view of the Sea of Marmara off
Istanbul. The pope gave the imam a mosaic showing four doves.

"Let us pray for brotherhood and for all humanity,"
the pope said in Italian.

Lombardi said the pope "paused in meditation" inside
the mosque and "certainly his thoughts turned to God."

The pope has offered wide-ranging messages of
reconciliation to Muslims since arriving in Turkey on Tuesday, including
appeals for greater understanding and support for Turkey's steps to become
the first Muslim nation in the European Union.

But Benedict also has set down his own demands.

After a deeply symbolic display of unity with
Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew I, the spiritual leader of the world's
Christian Orthodox, the pope again repeated his calls for greater freedoms
for religious minorities and described the divisions among Christians -
including the nearly 1,000-year rift between Catholics and Orthodox - as a
"scandal to the world."

Benedict has made outreach to the world's more than
250 million Orthodox a centerpiece of his young papacy and has set the
difficult goal of full unity between the two ancient branches of
Christianity.

----------------------



Now note (if you able to) in the last article:

"...the pope again repeated his calls for greater freedoms for
religious minorities...."
--
E' mai possibile, oh porco di un cane, che le avventure
in codesto reame debban risolversi tutte con grandi
puttane! F.d.A

Coins, travels and more: http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/golanule/my_photos
http://gogu.enosi.org/index.html
Mhitsos**24
2006-12-07 21:10:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Baba Bey
Post by Mhitsos**24
Turkey is far from secular.
Turkey is oppressing Christians living within Turkey.
I put all the newsgroups back again which the kemalist, fascist Baba
removed.
Post by Baba Bey
Bullshit.
It is Greece who does not grant the minority Turks in Greece their rights.
Post by Mhitsos**24
Turkey has pushed itself from Europe when it mass murdered 1,5 million
Armenians and mass murdered about half million orthodox Christians
Bullshit. In your imagination maybe.
Post by Mhitsos**24
In the 50' there were hundred's of thousand Greek Orthodox living in
Constaninople ( Istanbul ).
Now there are only 2000 left.
Don't tell bullshit, idiot!
If these problems are to receive due consideration, and if Greek-Turkish
relations are to be permanently improved (as the Greek people and, quite
rightly, their partners in the European Community desire), then certain
truths must be made known, which will shed light on Turkish tactics.
Turkey solves the problem of the minorities within it's borders with
impunity by the simple expedient of exterminating them. The Turkish
authorities have frequently made and executed plans to wipe out Christians:

1. in 1915 they carried out the internationally notorious Armenian
genocide (1.500.000 dead);
2. in 1918-21, they wiped out 350.000 Greeks in the Pontus.
3. in 1922, they uprooted 1.200.000 Greeks with fire and sword from
their age-old homes in Asia Minor and Eastern Thrace and killed hundreds
of thousands of them.
4. in 1955, they waged a progrom against the Greeks of
Constantinople (NATO is aware of this).

The last incident fully reveals the Turk's perfidy.

Nero burned Rome to wipe out the Christians. The Turks used a different
method to wipe out the Greeks of Istanbul, as is revealed by the
proceedings of the Mederes case, the NATO, archives, confessions in the
Turkish parliament, and numerous articles in the foreign press.

On 3 September 1995, the wife of the Turkish Consul in Thessaloniki
commissioned a local Greek photographer to take photographs of the
Turkish Consulate in Thessaloniki (which is the house in which Kemal
Ataturk was born). The next day she took her children to Istanbul, where
she handed the photographs over to local newspapers.

At 12.10 a.m. on 6 September 1995, the Turkish guard of consulate who
was then guarding the consulate and a student who is now Prefect of
Cappadokia) threw a quantity of dynamite into the courtyard of the
consulate, the resulting blast shattering a number of the building's
windows.

On the morning of 6 September 1955, a Constantinople newspaper
deliberately published the false information that Kemal Ataturk's house
in Thessaloniki had been blown up. Later that day, over a period of nine
hours, a Turkish mob, which the Turkish authorities had already conveyed
to Constantinople from the Asiatic coast, destroyed 4.500 Greek-owned
shops, 1.000 houses, 73 churches and 37 schools, robbed and desecrated
graves and raped 200 Greek women. That.night, the Greek Consulate in
Smyrna was burnt down and the houses of the Greek NATO officers were
looted. These events led a great many panic-stricken Greeks to flee
Turkey, leaving their property and possessions behind.

Owing to considerable pressure from America and NATO, Greece did not
react, for the sake of the Alliance. The Turks then instituted
unspeakable coercive measures to force the remaining Greeks to leave.
Greece inflicted no retaliatory measures whatsoever on the Moslem
minority in Thrace. The statistics speak for themselves: the census
conducted for the Treaty of Lausanne revealed the presence of 250.000
Greeks in Turkey and 82.000 Moslems in Western Thrace; today there are
2.500 Greeks in Turkey and 120.000 Moslems in Western Thrace. Of these
120.000 Moslems, 59.000 are of Turkish stock 39.000 are Pomaks and
22.000 are Gypsies. Turkey makes them all our to be Turks. By its false
propaganda abroad, and through the activities of its agents in Western
Thrace, who are supposedly monitoring human rights violations against
the Moslems. Turkey is biding its time to create serious trouble just as
it did in Cyprus.

The fact that the Moslems of Western Thrace enjoy all the minority
rights laid down by the Treaty of Lausanne may be deduced from the
report which Professor Seguan has made for the EC on matters relating to
the minorities in Greece, Spain and Portugal.

In this report sponsored by the EEC, professor Seguan states that there
are 163 schools for the Moslem minority in Western Thrace, with 474
teachers and 11.000 pupils, who are also taught the Turkish language.

In 1922 there were two academies, one university-level commercial
school, eight senior high schools for both boys and girls and 110
primary schools in Constantinople; today there are only 250 students in
primary and secondary education.

It is time Greece took the matter of the seizure of Greek property to
the international court and brought up the question of respect for the
fundamental principle of the equality of minorities. The principle has
been violently contravened in a manner the tramples upon human rights,
it is provided for by the Treaty of Lausanne, and is recognised,
moreover, as an obligation of international concern and guaranteed by
the League of Nations.

The point of the rash actions of Turkish leaders is, by fair means of
foul, to make Turks of the Moslems outside Turkey, and at the same time
to mask their criminal indifference towards the political, social, and
economic problems faced by the poverty-stricken and ignorant Turkish
people, who, this reason, are turning to the fanatical Islamists.

In the course of an official visit to Western Thrace in 1995, in the
company of a crowd of journalists, the Turkish under-secretary Mr
Aktuman marked his brow with the blood of a slaughtered sheep. This
apparently amusing action was in fact quite calculated, because,
according to an old Turkish custom, this is what Turkish officials would
do when they left their own country to visit an neighbouring one. Mr
Aktuman was in fact saying that Western Thrace is already Turkish.

The Turks have never fought for democracy and freedom (they were exposed
in Korea). They lie in wait and seize their neighbours' territories at
difficult moments. They seized Alexandretta. They seized Cyprus when
Greece and Cyprus were going through a difficult time. They destroyed
the Greeks of Instanbul in 1955. They took part in the Gulf War so that
they could seize parts of Iraq. When Hitler was initially razing the
Russian troops, Turkish generals hastened to Berlin to claim their share
of the Soviet Union.

Turkey has never implemented the Treaty of Lausanne. It is now the turn
of the Kurds to suffer the same fate as the Christians, so that Turkey
may be purely Turkish region unadulterated my minorities; it will
trumpet a respect for minorities, having wiped out all its own.
Gradually, it will create trouble wherever in the world Moslems are
living, in order to fulfill its pan-Turkish and pan-Islamist dreams.

In September 1990, a Turkish minister named Sarfet Serz stated in the
Turkish parliament that "Turkey's aim when it enters the European
Community is to convert Christendom to Islam". This was certainly no
chance remark.

Turkey itself, in collusion with Raul Denktash, is blatantly defying
United Nations decisions by unlawfully maintaining troops in Cyprus. It
is also violating human rights :

1. by the tragic situation of the refugees;
2. by the anguish of the families of Cypriots who have been missing
since 1974; and
3. by altering the make-up of the population and bringing Turks from
other areas to settle on the island and looting the cultural heritage of
occupied Cyprus.

With respect to these two Greek issues (the Macedonian Question and the
Cyprus Question), you may find it useful to hear the views on o
non-Greek. On page 55 of his book, Meditation on the Future of
Democracy, the former Spanish Ambassador to Greece, Mr Jose Manuel
Quiroga, writes : "Who in Western Europe, and above all in America, and
even in Greece itself, has realised the significance for the West's very
existence of maintaining Macedonia and Cyprus as outposts of Hellinsm?
The loss of them will sound the alarm for democracy. But by the time the
alarm sound, it is usually too late".

With particular reference to Cyprus, on pp 56 and 57 he writes:

". . . .this great island, riveted to the Greek world by history, by its
intellectual cultivation, by religion . . . . . ,

"Cyprus, after all, is the easternmost bastion of the Western world;
for, apart from the fact that it is Greek, its history and its artistic
creativity reflect the very essence of the crusades and the Middle Ages.
Centuries of Western presence, including Franks, Catalans, French, and
Venetians, have left behind cathedrals (now mosques), Gothic
monasteries, churches and chapels.";

"In 1974, the Turkish army occupied the island of Cyprus with impunity;

Mr President, I bring all the above to your attention as my lawful duty,
in view of contractual obligations regarding respect for the history and
cultural heritage of peoples, for the sake of peace in this very
sensitive area of Europe, and also in deference to the prestige and
gravity of the European Union.

Mr President, I am a Macedonian. I was a government Minister for
thirteen years out of which seven as Minister of Macedonia and Thrace. I
served as a reserve officer in the Second World War for seven years. And
I am the author of "The Falsification of Macedonian History", a book
which has received an award from the Athens Academy and been translated
into seven languages. Helmut Schmidt and Valery Giscard d' Estaing have
described my book as an important contribution to European history (see
Macedonia, pp.62-3). I am sending you an inscribed copy of the latest
edition supplemented with evidence from Hebrew sources which identify
the Macedonians as Greeks.

I am also sending you a copy of my latest book, "Macedonia" with 22
pages of text and 92 pages of documentary evidence, irrefutably reveals
the enormous political and historical fraud that was the creation in
1944 of Skopje's pseudo-Macedonian state, the ultimate purpose of which
was to wrest Macedonia from Greece. The event was roundly condemned in
December 1944 by the Roosevelt administration (see Macedonia, pp, 1 and 26),

Yours sincerely,

NICHOLAS MARTIS

(Former government Minister)
http://www2.forthnet.gr/EAAN/martis.htm
Post by Baba Bey
The Greeks have immigrated to Greece since they were greedy
and could earn more money there as Greece is in the EU...
--

http://www.saunalahti.fi/dimitrxe/trolls/kemalist_fascist_trolls_from_use.htm
Baba Bey
2006-12-07 21:35:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mhitsos**24
At 12.10 a.m. on 6 September 1995, the Turkish guard of consulate who
was then guarding the consulate and a student who is now Prefect of
Cappadokia) threw a quantity of dynamite into the courtyard of the
consulate, the resulting blast shattering a number of the building's
windows.
On the morning of 6 September 1955, a Constantinople newspaper
deliberately published the false information that Kemal Ataturk's house
in Thessaloniki had been blown up.
You are lying like a... Greek or Armenian? :-)))
See the dates, idiot!
Something, if not all, is definitely wrong in your story....
ROTFL! :-))))))))))))))))))))))
gogu
2006-12-07 21:40:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Baba Bey
Post by Mhitsos**24
At 12.10 a.m. on 6 September 1995, the Turkish guard of consulate who
was then guarding the consulate and a student who is now Prefect of
Cappadokia) threw a quantity of dynamite into the courtyard of the
consulate, the resulting blast shattering a number of the building's
windows.
On the morning of 6 September 1955, a Constantinople newspaper
deliberately published the false information that Kemal Ataturk's house
in Thessaloniki had been blown up.
You are lying like a... Greek or Armenian? :-)))
And you are an idiot like a...Turk;-)
(is this OK with you darling?;-)).
Post by Baba Bey
See the dates, idiot!
Something, if not all, is definitely wrong in your story....
ROTFL! :-))))))))))))))))))))))
Idiot!
Even the Turkish state admitted the horror and that's why they accepted to
pay reparations!
But at the end they just paid around 20% of the real value of the damages!
Menderes at the beginning accused the communists but soon this was proved to
be a baloney!
Read *your* history on the matter if you want but stop making an a****le out
of you!
--
E' mai possibile, oh porco di un cane, che le avventure
in codesto reame debban risolversi tutte con grandi
puttane! F.d.A

Coins, travels and more: http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/golanule/my_photos
http://gogu.enosi.org/index.html
gogu
2006-12-07 21:49:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Baba Bey
Post by Mhitsos**24
At 12.10 a.m. on 6 September 1995, the Turkish guard of consulate who
was then guarding the consulate and a student who is now Prefect of
Cappadokia) threw a quantity of dynamite into the courtyard of the
consulate, the resulting blast shattering a number of the building's
windows.
On the morning of 6 September 1955, a Constantinople newspaper
deliberately published the false information that Kemal Ataturk's house
in Thessaloniki had been blown up.
You are lying like a... Greek or Armenian? :-)))
See the dates, idiot!
Something, if not all, is definitely wrong in your story....
ROTFL! :-))))))))))))))))))))))
Here, read the truth you fascist Turk!
Even with TURKISH sources (footnote)!

----------------------
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Istanbul_Pogrom


Istanbul Pogrom

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Istanbul Pogrom (aka Istanbul Riots; Greek: ????????????; Turkish: 6-7
Eylül Olaylari: both literally Events of September), was a pogrom directed
primarily at Istanbul's 100,000-strong Greek minority on 6 and September 7,
1955. Jews and Armenians living in the city and their businesses were also
targeted in the pogrom, which was orchestrated by the Demokrat
Parti-government of Turkish Prime Minister Adnan Menderes. The events were
triggered by the false news that the house in Thessaloniki (Turkish:
Selânik), Greece, where Mustafa Kemal Atatürk was born in 1881, had been
bombed the day before.[1]

A Turkish mob, most of which was trucked into the city in advance, assaulted
Istanbul's Greek community for nine hours. Although the orchestrators of the
pogrom did not explicitly call for Greeks to be killed, between 13 and 16
Greeks (including two Orthodox clerics) and at least one Armenian died
during or after the pogrom as a result of beatings and arsons.[2]


Thirty-two Greeks were severely wounded. In addition, dozens of Greek women
were raped, and a number of men were forcibly circumcised by the mob. 4,348
Greek-owned businesses, 110 hotels, 27 pharmacies, 23 schools, 21 factories,
73 churches and over a thousand Greek-owned homes were badly damaged or
destroyed.[2]

Estimates on the economic cost of the damage vary from Turkish government's
estimate of 69.5 million Turkish lira, the British diplomat estimates of 100
million GBP, the World Council of Churches' estimate of 150 million USD, and
the Greek government's estimate of 500 million USD.[2]

The pogrom greatly accelerated emigration of ethnic Greeks, reducing the
200,000-strong Greek minority in 1924 to just over 5,000 in 2005.[3]




Background


The Greeks of Constantinople/Istanbul

Constantinople (modern Istanbul) was the capital of the Byzantine Empire
until 1453, when the city was conquered by Ottoman forces.[4] In fact, the
city's Greek population, particularly the Phanariotes, came to play a
significant role in the social and economic life of the city and in the
political and diplomatic life of the Ottoman Empire in general.[5] This
continued after the establishment of an independent Greek state in 1829.[6]
Following the Greco-Turkish War (1919-1922), the collapse of the Ottoman
Empire, and the establishment of the Republic of Turkey, the Greek
population of Constantinople, officially Istanbul from 1930 onward, began to
decline.[7]

Punitive measures, such as the 1932 parliamentary law, barred Greek citizens
living in Turkey from a series of 30 trades and professions from tailor and
carpenter to medicine, law and real estate).[2] The Varlik Vergisi capital
gains tax imposed in 1942 also served to reduce the economic potential of
Greek businesspeople in Turkey.



Context

Since 1954, a number of nationalist student and irredentist organisations,
such as the National Federation of Turkish Students, the National Union of
Turkish Students, and the editor of the major newspaper Hürriyet Hikmet
Bilâ's Cyprus is Turkish Party, had protested against the Greek minority and
the Ecumenical Patriarchate.[2]

In 1955 a state-supported propaganda campaign involving the Turkish press
galvanized public opinion against the Greek minority.[2]

In the weeks running up to September 6, Turkish leaders made a number of
anti-Greek speeches. On August 28 Prime Minister Menderes claimed that
Greek-Cypriots were planning a massacre of Turkish-Cypriots. The Turkish
plan to detonate an explosive on 5-6 September at the Turkish consulate (and
birthplace of Mustafa Kemal Atatürk) in Greece's second largest city,
Thessaloniki, sparked the pogrom. Former Prime Minister Menderes and former
Foreign Minister Fatin Rüstü Zorlu were convicted and sentenced to death by
hanging for violating the constitution at the Yassiada Trial in 1960-1961.
During the trial, it was revealed that the consulate bomb fuse was sent from
Turkey to Salonica on September 3. Oktay Engin, the MAH agent, who was then
in Thessaloniki under the cover of a university student, was given the
mission of installing the explosives.[2]

In addition to the Cyprus issue, the chronic economic situation also
motivated the Turkish political leadership into orchestrating the pogrom.
Although a minority, the Greek population played a prominent role in the
city's business life, making it a convenient scapegoat during the economic
crisis.[2]

Contrary to the secularity of Kemalism, Prime Minister Menderes built a
thousand mosques during his tenure of office.



Organization

The 1961 Yassiada Trial against Menderes and Foreign Minister Zorlu exposed
the detailed planning of the pogrom. Menderes and Zorlu mobilized the
formidable machinery of the ruling Demokrat Parti (DP) and party-controlled
trade unions of Istanbul. Interior minister Namik Gedik was also involved.
According to Zorlu's lawyer at the Yassiada trial, a mob of 300,000 was
marshalled in a radius of 40 miles around the city for the pogrom.[2]

In addition, ten of Istanbul's 18 branches of Cyprus is Turkish Party were
run by DP officials. This organization played a crucial role in inciting
anti-Greek activities.[2]



The Pogrom


Planning
In his 2005 book, Harvard-trained Byzantinist historian Speros Vryonis
documents the direct role of the Demokrat Parti organisation and
government-controlled trade unions in amassing the rioters that swept
Istanbul. Most of the rioters came from western Asia Minor. His case study
of Eskisehir shows how the party there recruited 400 to 500 workers from
local factories, who were carted by train with third class-tickets to
Istanbul. These recruits were promised the equivalent of $6 USD, which was
never paid. They were accompanied by Eskisehir police, who were charged with
coordinating the destruction and looting once the contingent was broken up
into sub-groups of 40-50 men, and the leaders of the party branches.[2]



Execution

Municipal and government trucks were placed in strategic points all around
the city to distribute the tools of destruction - shovels, pickaxes,
crowbars, ramming rods and petrol - while 4,000 private taxis were
requisitioned to transport the pogromists.[2]

A protest rally on the night of September 6, organised by the authorities in
Istanbul, on the Cyprus issue and the alleged arson attack in Thessaloniki
at the house where Mustafa Kemal Atatürk was born, was the cover for
amassing the rioters. At 17.00, the pogrom started and from its original
centre in Taksim Square, the trouble rippled out during the evening through
the old suburb of Pera, the smashing and looting of Greek commercial
property, particularly along Yuksek Kaldirim street. By 18.00, many of the
Greek shops on Istanbul's main shopping street, Istiklal Caddesi, were
ransacked. Many commercial streets were littered with merchandise and
fittings torn out of Greek-owned businesses.

According to the account of one eyewitness, a Greek dentist, the mob chanted
"Death to the Gavurs", "Massacre the Greek traitors", "Down with Europe" and
"Onward to Athens and Thessaloniki" as they executed the pogrom.

The riot died down by midnight with the intervention of the Turkish Army and
martial law was declared. Eyewitnesses reported, however, that army officers
and policemen had earlier participated in the rampages and in many cases
urged the rioters on.



Personal violence

While the pogromists were not instructed to kill their targets, sections of
the mob went much further than scaring or intimidating local Greeks. Between
13 and 16 Greeks and one Armenian (including two clerics) died as a result
of the pogrom. 32 Greeks were severely wounded. Men and women were raped,
and according to the account of the Turkish writer Aziz Nesin, men, mainly
priests, were subjected to forced circumcision by frenzied members of the
mob and an Armenian priest died after the procedure. Nesin wrote [citation
needed]:

" A man who was fearful of being beaten, lynched or cut into pieces
would imply and try to prove that he was both a Turk and a Muslim. "Pull it
out and let us see," they would reply. The poor man would peel off his
trousers and show his "Muslimness" and "Turkishness": And what was the
proof? That he had been circumcised. If the man was circumcised, he was
saved. If not, he was "burned". Indeed, having lied, he could not be saved
from a beating. For one of those aggressive young men would draw his knife
and circumcise him in the middle of the street and amid the chaos. A
difference of two or three centimetres does not justify such a commotion.
That night, many men shouting and screaming were Islamized forcefully by the
cruel knife. Among those circumcised there was also a priest. "



Material damage


The physical and material damage was considerable and over 4,348 Greek-owned
businesses, 110 hotels, 27 pharmacies, 23 schools, 21 factories, and 73
churches and over 1,000 Greek-owned homes were badly attacked or destroyed.



Church property

In addition to commercial targets, the mob clearly targeted property owned
or administered by the Greek Orthodox Church. 73 churches and 23 schools
were vandalized, burned or destroyed, as were 8 asperses and 3 monasteries.
This represented about 90 percent of the church property portfolio in the
city. The ancient Byzantine church of Panagia in Veligradiou was vandalised
and burned down. The church at Yedikule was badly vandalised, as was the
church of St. Constantine of Psammathos. At Zoodochos Pege church in
Balikli, the tombs of a number of ecumenical patriarchs were smashed open
and desecrated. The abbot of the monastery, Bishop Gerasimos of Pamphilos,
was severely beaten during the pogrom and died from his wounds some days
later in Balikli hospital. In one church arson attack, Father Chrysanthos
Mandas, was burned alive. The Metropolitan of Liloupolis, Gennadios, was
badly beaten and went mad. Elsewhere in the city, Greek cemeteries came
under attack and were desecrated. Some reports also testified that relics of
saints were burned or thrown to dogs.



Witnesses


An eyewitness account was provided by journalist Noel Barber of the London
Daily Mail on 14 September 1955:

" The church of Yediküle was utterly smashed, and one priest was
dragged from bed, the hair torn from his head and the beard literally torn
from his chin. Another old Greek priest [Fr Mantas] in a house belonging to
the church and who was too ill to be moved was left in bed, and the house
was set on fire and he was burned alive. At the church of Yenikoy, a lovely
spot on the edge of the Bosphorus, a priest of 75 was taken out into the
street, stripped of every stitch of clothing, tied behind a car and dragged
through the streets. They tried to tear the hair of another priest, but
failing that, they scalped him, as they did many others. "

One significant eyewitness was Ian Fleming, the James Bond author, who was
in Istanbul covering the International Police Conference as a special
representative for the London Sunday Times. His account, entitled "The Great
Riot of Istanbul", appeared in that paper on 11 September 1955.



Secondary action

While the pogrom was predominantly an Istanbul affair, there were some
outrages in other Turkish cities. On the morning of 7 September 1955 In
Izmir (Smyrna), a mob overran the Izmir National Park, where an
international exhibition was taking place, and burned the Greek pavilion.
Moving next to the Church of Saint Fotini, built two years earlier to serve
the needs of the Greek officers (serving at NATO Regional Headquarters), the
mob destroyed it completely. The homes of the few Greek families and
officers were then looted.



Documentation

Considerable contemporary documentation showing the extent of the
destruction is provided by the photographs taken by Demetrios Kaloumenos,
then official photographer to the Ecumenical Patriarchate. Setting off just
hours after the pogrom began, Kaloumenos set out with his camera to capture
the damage and smuggled the film to Greece.



Reactions

Although the Menderes government attempted to blame Turkish Communists for
the pogrom, most foreign observers were aware of who was to blame. In a
letter of 15 November 1955 to prime minister Menderes, Ecumenical Patriarch
Athenagoras graphically described the crimes inflicted on his flock. "The
very foundation of a civilisation which is the heritage of centuries, the
property of all mankind, has been gravely attacked", he wrote, adding: "All
of us, without any defence, spent moments of agony, and in vain sought and
waited for protection from those responsible for order and tranquillity".

The chargé d'affaires at the British Embassy in Ankara, Michael Stewart,
directly implicated Menderes' Demokrat Parti in the execution of the attack.
"There is fairly reliable evidence that local Demokrat Parti representatives
were among the leaders of the rioting in various parts of Istanbul, notably
in the Marmara islands, and it has been argued that only the Demokrat Parti
had the political organisation in the country capable of demonstrations on
the scale that occurred," he reported, refusing to assign blame to the party
as a whole or Menderes personally, however.

Although British Ambassador to Ankara, Bowker advised British Prime Minister
Harold Macmillan that the United Kingdom should "court a sharp rebuff by
admonishing Turkey", only a note of distinctly mild disapproval was
dispatched to Menderes. The context of the Cold War led Britain and the U.S.
to absolve the Menderes government of the direct political blame that it was
due. The efforts of Greece to internationalise the human rights violations
through international organisations such as the UN and NATO found little
sympathy. British NATO representative Cheetham deemed it "undesirable" to
probe the pogrom. US representative Edwin Martin thought the effect on the
alliance was exaggerated, and the French, Belgians and Norwegians urged the
Greeks to "let bygones be bygones". Indeed, the North Atlantic Council
issued a statement that the Turkish government had done everything that
could be expected.

More outspoken was the World Council of Churches, given the damage wrought
on 90 percent of Istanbul's Greek Orthodox churches, and a delegation was
sent to Istanbul to inspect the havoc.



Aftermath

As private insurance did not exist in Turkey at the time, the only hope the
pogrom's victims had for compensation was from the Turkish state. Although
Turkish President Mahmut Celal Bayar announced that "the victims of the
destruction shall be compensated", there was little political will or
financial means to carry out such a promise. In the end, Greeks ended up
receiving about 20 percent of their claims due to the fact that the assessed
values of their properties had already been vastly reduced.

Tensions continued and in 1958-1959, Turkish nationalist students embarked
on a campaign encouraging the boycott of all Greek businesses. The task was
completed eight years later in 1964 when the Ankara government reneged on
the 1930 Greco-Turkish Ankara Convention, which established the right of
Greek etablis (Greeks who were born and lived in Istanbul but held Greek
citizenship) to live and work in Turkey. Deported with two day's notice, the
Greek community of Istanbul shrunk from 80,000 (or 100,000 by some accounts)
persons in 1955 to only 48,000 in 1965. Today, the Greek community numbers
about 5,000, mostly older, Greeks.

At the Yassiada Trial in 1960-61, Menderes and Zorlu were charged with
violating the constitution. The trial also made reference to the pogrom, for
which they were blamed. While the accused were denied fundamental rights
regarding their defence, they were found guilty and sentenced to death by
hanging.

Oktay Engin, the agent who attempted the arson in Salonica, had continued to
work at MIT for years until 1992 when he was promoted to the office of
governor for Nevsehir Province.

In August 1995, the US Senate passed a special resolution marking the
September 1955 pogrom, calling on the President of the United States Bill
Clinton to proclaim 6 September as a Day of Memory for the victims of the
pogrom.



Notes

1.. ^ Dilek Güven, "6-7 Eylül Olaylari (1)", Radikal, 6 September 2005
2.. ^ a b c d e f g h i j k l Speros Vryonis, The Mechanism of
Catastrophe: The Turkish Pogrom of September 6-7, 1955, and the Destruction
of the Greek Community of Istanbul, New York: Greekworks.com 2005, ISBN
978-0-9747660-3
3.. ^ According to figures presented by Prof. Vyron Kotzamanis to a
conference of unions and federations representing the ethnic Greeks of
Istanbul."Ethnic Greeks of Istanbul convene", Athens News Agency, 2 July
2006.
4.. ^ However, a Greek community continued to live in the city.
5.. ^ See the article on the Phanariotes.
6.. ^ A number of ethnic Greeks served in the Ottoman diplomatic service
in the 19th century.
7.. ^ As evidenced by demographic statistics.


References

a.. Fahri Çoker: 6-7 Eylül Olaylari : Fotograflar - Belgeler. Fahri Çoker
Arsivi. Istanbul, 2005, ISBN 975-333-19
b.. Dilek Güven: 6-7 Eylül Olaylari. Istanbul, 2005, ISBN 975-333-19
c.. Speros Vryonis, The Mechanism of Catastrophe: The Turkish Pogrom of
September 6-7, 1955, and the Destruction of the Greek Community of Istanbul,
New York: Greekworks.com 2005, ISBN 978-0-9747660-3
d.. George Gilson, "Destroying a minority: Turkey's attack on the Greeks",
Athens News, 24 June 2005.
e.. Ilias K. Maglinis, "Istanbul 1955: The anatomy of a pogrom",
Kathimerini, 28 June 2005.
f.. Robert Holland, Britain and the Revolt in Cyprus, 1954-59, Oxford:
Clarendon Press, 1998, pp. 75-78.
g.. Ali Tuna Kuyucu, "Ethno-religious 'unmixing' of 'Turkey': 6-7
September riots as a case in Turkish nationalism", in Nations and
Nationalism, 11:3 (2005), pp. 361-380.
h.. Indymedia Istanbul, "50. yilinda 6-7 Eylül Olaylari".
i.. Mehmet Ali Birand, "The shame of Sept. 6-7 is always with us", Turkish
Daily News, 7 September 2005.
j.. The Washington Post, "In Turkey, a Clash of Nationalism and History",
an article by Karl Vick referring to the events as a "pogrom".
k.. Dogu ERGIL ""Past as present" Turkish Daily News 12 September 2005 "16
dead and dozens of wounded citizens of Greek origin"
--------------------------

Happy now retard?...
--
E' mai possibile, oh porco di un cane, che le avventure
in codesto reame debban risolversi tutte con grandi
puttane! F.d.A

Coins, travels and more: http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/golanule/my_photos
http://gogu.enosi.org/index.html
gogu
2006-12-07 21:55:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Baba Bey
Post by Mhitsos**24
At 12.10 a.m. on 6 September 1995, the Turkish guard of consulate who
was then guarding the consulate and a student who is now Prefect of
Cappadokia) threw a quantity of dynamite into the courtyard of the
consulate, the resulting blast shattering a number of the building's
windows.
On the morning of 6 September 1955, a Constantinople newspaper
deliberately published the false information that Kemal Ataturk's house
in Thessaloniki had been blown up.
You are lying like a... Greek or Armenian? :-)))
See the dates, idiot!
Something, if not all, is definitely wrong in your story....
ROTFL! :-))))))))))))))))))))))
Well, as always it is clear to everybody that the LIAR is the fascist
Turkish clown Baba Idiot;-)

And here it is the testimony of the well known and respected Turkish
journalist Mehmet Ali Birand!
Is he also a "Greek paid agent" or a "Trash Greek source", you retard;-)

----------------
http://www.turkishdailynews.com.tr/article.php?enewsid=22723


The shame of Sept. 6-7 is always with us

Wednesday, September 7, 2005

Mehmet Ali BIRAND


I am one of the living witnesses of what happened in Istanbul 50 years
ago. I was 14 years old. I did not know what it was all about. However, the
passage of time made me understand the seriousness of the incidents, and I
always carry the shame. Even though it was the only such incident in which
the Turkish state officially admitted its culpability and tried to
compensate its victims, it still continues to weigh on our conscience.

I can never forget.

I can still remember what I saw in Beyoglu on the morning of Sept. 7,
1955.

I had to go to Galatasaray High School to register for their preliminary
class. I reached Beyoglu with great difficulty. When I went to Tunel from
Karaköy, I just was flabbergasted.

The scene was shocking.

The huge street seemed like a war zone, with windows of the shops on both
sides of the street shattered and all their goods strewn all over the
street. Bunches of clothes, books, notebooks, chandeliers and much more.
People were taking home whatever they could find. The scene was like
judgment day.

I was a child, and I had no idea what had happened.

What I noticed immediately was that while some shops were plundered,
others were not even touched. I had a look and saw that there was a Turkish
flag hanging on the windows of the shops that were not looted. Those that
were had Greek names.

People with long beards and those who were dressed very shabbily were
walking around. I saw that some people who were dressed normally were hiding
in the shops, looking outside.

The police and the soldiers seemed like they were saying: "Enough is
enough. You did what you did, but now just leave." They were both
intervening and not intervening at the same time.

That scene has always remained with me.

Even though half a century has passed, I still shiver when I remember it.

When I read the newspapers a day later, I realized the extent of the
matter.

Similar incidents had occurred also in Taksim and Sisli, where most of the
citizens of Greek origin lived. Not only the shops, but also churches, even
cemeteries were damaged and plundered. Jewish citizens also got their share
of trouble, but the main targets were Greeks.

Newspapers were writing about people waving Turkish flags, pleading with
the looters: "Please don't do it. I'm a Turk. I am a Turkish citizen."

It was a disgusting, belittling and tragic affair.

My mother and other adults were criticizing what had happened, while
officials were talking about "the placing of a bomb at the house in
Thessaloniki where Atatürk was born, which had been turned into a museum,
and the anger felt against what was happening in Cyprus," explaining that
the people had become enraged.

We were living on Ethem Efendi Street at the time. Our neighbors were
mostly Greek. They were my best friends. All of a sudden, they shut
themselves in their homes. They talked to no one. I can never forget Madam
Eleni when she asked, "Can we seek refuge in your home if they attack us?"
The barbershop she managed with her husband was in ruins. They were in
shock. My mother sent them food for a week. We let them live in one of our
rooms.

I was too young to make sense of what had happened. Why should they attack
Madam Eleni? What could they ask from them? Why were they different from me?

As I was seeking answers to these questions, the Greek families in our
neighborhood started to move to other places or go to Greece. After 1963
none of them were left. They left Istanbul.

They took with them an important culture, a color and a different
lifestyle.

They left us alone in Istanbul to live our colorless lives.

Later on we were full of regret, but by then it was too late.



Turkey admitted all culpability, accepted responsibility:



Much later, we learned the Sept. 6-7 incidents were the doing of the
infamous "deep state." It was planned with government approval in order to
let diplomats say "The people are reacting" during the U.N. discussions on
Cyprus. However, it later got out of control and turned into a shameful
plunder. It became a crime that the deep state could not handle, and it
shamed the Turkish nation.

What's interesting is that apart from a few injuries, no one was killed.
It wasn't a massacre. It was a disgusting plunder aimed at frightening
people.

What's even more interesting is the way Sept. 6-7 shamed us and hurt us
and tainted us as a nation.

This was also recorded as the only such incident when the Republic of
Turkey officially admitted its responsibility, apologized and compensated
the victims.

At the Yassiada trials, after the May 21, 1960 military coup, the Sept.
6-7 incidents were investigated down to the smallest detail, and those held
responsible were tried and punished.

As always, there was no mention as the deep state. It emerged entirely
unscathed by the affair. A few thieves, civilians with no links to the
planning or to the politicians, were punished.

In the later years, whenever the Sept. 6-7 incidents were mentioned, I
felt an overwhelming shame and I always apologized to the victims I saw at
international meetings.

During the Sept. 6-7 incidents our Turkishness was trampled underfoot. It
was then I realized that if we don't criticize such incidents and apologize
to the victims, we can never feel proud of ourselves.

Apologizing is enriching. It shows self-confidence.

Discriminating due to religion, language or culture or using force on the
weak is belittling one's self.

I don't know you, but I apologize to our neighbor Madam Eleni from
Erenköy.

--------------------------
--
E' mai possibile, oh porco di un cane, che le avventure
in codesto reame debban risolversi tutte con grandi
puttane! F.d.A

Coins, travels and more: http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/golanule/my_photos
http://gogu.enosi.org/index.html
lad
2006-12-10 09:30:09 UTC
Permalink
The funny thing is that the UK does not want to pay its full dues to the EU.

Salutations
Post by rick murphy
http://www.zaman.com/?bl=hotnews&alt=&trh=20061207&hn=38989
House of Lords Calls Turkey's EU Suspension 'Insult'
By Cihan News Agency
Wednesday, December 06, 2006
zaman.com
Post by rick murphy
Turkey to open its harbors and ports to Greek Cypriot traffic was
characterized as "illogical."
The MPs also accentuated that Greek Cyprus was vetoing Turkey's
membership with the aid of France and Austria.
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